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Poll
Question: Do you think Zimmerman is
Guilty   -5 (25%)
Not Guilty   -2 (10%)
Self Defense   -1 (5%)
You don't know enough to decide   -12 (60%)
Total Voters: 17

Author Topic: Trayvon Martin case  (Read 148872 times)
badger6
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« Reply #465 on: May 19, 2012, 09:45:59 pm »

And a dead child...not sure how you're minimizing that point. -EK

I wouldn't classify Martin as a child. Children don't beat up grown men with guns.....
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badger6
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« Reply #466 on: May 19, 2012, 09:49:46 pm »

Really? Even though you people of all races at rallies and protesting, it was the "blacks"? I don't condone the alleged death threats. But it was the perceived mishandling of the case from the 911 call to today that made it a national story.

Actually the first thing that I ever saw about this whole clusterfuck was something along the lines of "White man kills black kid", or something to that effect.
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el diablo
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« Reply #467 on: May 20, 2012, 12:03:44 am »

Actually the first thing that I ever saw about this whole clusterfuck was something along the lines of "White man kills black kid", or something to that effect.

And the sad thing is that's what you hold onto. The first thing I heard/saw was "Unarmed teen shot by neighborhood watchman."
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Spider-Dan
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« Reply #468 on: May 20, 2012, 02:11:24 am »

Actually, neither of those were a national story.

The story was not "man shoots teenager" nor was it "man shoots teenager and not arrested"  The story was "blacks (most of whom never knew either of the people involved and live miles away) hold protests, have rallies, and issue death threats"
Your statement contradicts itself.  If "the blacks" don't know either of the people involved and live far away, how can they protest something they don't know about?  In other words, how can there be a national story about protests (complete with national figures like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton) if the killing is still only local news?

Furthermore, your interpretation of events seems to imply that the actual story is about the protests and not the shooting.  This would be like saying that the Casey Anthony coverage was about the investigation, not the homicide.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2012, 02:12:57 am by Spider-Dan » Logged

Spider-Dan
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« Reply #469 on: May 20, 2012, 02:17:56 am »

If the prosecution has said that they don't know who initiated the altercation how can they prove it ?
When, exactly, did the prosecution say in court that "they don't know who initiated the altercation"?

Quote
And the injuries to the defendant.
Injuries to the defendant don't tell you anything about who started it.

Quote
If that is all you have to go by, what do you suggest ? Guilty by default ?
Since when is Zimmerman's account the only piece of evidence in the case?  There are the 911 calls, there is the testimony from the girl Martin was talking to on the phone, there is the testimony from the other witnesses, as well as all of the physical evidence (such as the location of the shooting relative to the location of Zimmerman's car).
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CF DolFan
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cf_dolfan
« Reply #470 on: May 20, 2012, 07:25:12 am »

Your statement contradicts itself.  If "the blacks" don't know either of the people involved and live far away, how can they protest something they don't know about?  In other words, how can there be a national story about protests (complete with national figures like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton) if the killing is still only local news?

Furthermore, your interpretation of events seems to imply that the actual story is about the protests and not the shooting.  This would be like saying that the Casey Anthony coverage was about the investigation, not the homicide.
I would argue that the protests were more of what most people heard about than the actual incident. Al, Jesse, NBA, musicians , Hollywood and the infamous Black Panthers etc. Ask most of the people about the case and i bet they don't know much about it but can tell you about who was standing up against it.
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Getting offended by something you see on the internet is like choosing to step in dog shite instead of walking around it.
EKnight
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« Reply #471 on: May 20, 2012, 09:13:45 am »

I wouldn't classify Martin as a child. Children don't beat up grown men with guns.....

It doesn't matter what YOU would classify him as. He was 17. He was a child. Period. -EK
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Landshark
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« Reply #472 on: May 20, 2012, 11:31:17 am »

It doesn't matter what YOU would classify him as. He was 17. He was a child. Period. -EK

You wanna play with the big boys, don't expect to be treated like a kid.
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EKnight
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« Reply #473 on: May 20, 2012, 01:25:34 pm »

My bad. Those Skittles and that Iced tea he had sure made him one of the "big boys." What a bullshit, cop out answer. He couldn't vote. He couldn't be drafted. He couldn't drink alcohol. He was a minor. It's not even a debatable topic. Martin was a child. -EK
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CF DolFan
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cf_dolfan
« Reply #474 on: May 20, 2012, 02:28:24 pm »

It doesn't matter what YOU would classify him as. He was 17. He was a child. Period. -EK
He might be a juvenile but he was far from being a child.
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Getting offended by something you see on the internet is like choosing to step in dog shite instead of walking around it.
bsmooth
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« Reply #475 on: May 20, 2012, 02:40:02 pm »

But there has to be proof beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman started an altercation. They already stated that they didn't know who started it or how it started. So at this point with what we actually know, under the law there can be no conviction. In general second degree murder involves unlawful killing with intent or malice aforethought. The prosecution fucked up. They should have charged him with manslaughter.


It really doesn't matter if he continued the pursuit against the advice of the dispatcher. Even if it did, they can't prove it as far as I can tell. Allegations are only allegations without proof. In order to get a conviction they need to prove that Zimmerman got physical with Martin. And without a direct eyewitness or a confession they cannot do that......



One again your lack of knowledge is showing. Prosecutors routinely overcharge cases, which allows for plea bargains to lesser charges or allows the jury to find guilt to a lesser charge when they receive their instructions. I imagine that Florida, like many other states, allows for the jury to find guilt for a charge of manslaughter if they do not feel 2nd degree murder is warranted.
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badger6
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« Reply #476 on: May 21, 2012, 10:41:34 am »

One again your lack of knowledge is showing. Prosecutors routinely overcharge cases, which allows for plea bargains to lesser charges or allows the jury to find guilt to a lesser charge when they receive their instructions. I imagine that Florida, like many other states, allows for the jury to find guilt for a charge of manslaughter if they do not feel 2nd degree murder is warranted.

Well then I guess that several of legal analysts on various news channels have the same lack of knowledge because they seem to think the same thing. They seem to think that the states case is week and that there will be repercussions for the special prosecutor. Just one of the many legal analysts that have blasted this clown recently. And I quote.

--- “She has a terrible reputation in Florida for always overcharging,” Dershowtiz said of Corey. Recently, Corey has come under fire from Congresswoman Corrine Brown, in an unrelated case, for her courtroom victory in getting Melissa Alexander sentenced to 20 years in prison for firing a “warning shot” at her allegedly abusive husband.---

Angela Corey was appointed to "Get" big bad Zimmerman and reduce race riots. If and when an acquittal or not guilty is found. Whatever happens as far as riots is solely on Corey and she should be held 100% accountable

« Last Edit: May 21, 2012, 10:43:09 am by badger6 » Logged
Phishfan
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« Reply #477 on: May 21, 2012, 11:04:58 am »

^^^ Just to clarify a bit about that Alexander case, since I am a resident of the state. Alexander left the confrontation and went to her garage (where should could have easily left and in fact had left the confrontation) and came back with the gun when she fired the shot. Firing a gun during the commission of a crime (in this case the unnecessary firing of a gun) gets an automatic 20 years in this state. It is called 10-20-life. Pull out a gun get an automatic 10, fire it get 20, kill and get life (if convicted of a crime).

Corey had no say so in sentencing and neither did the judge.
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Spider-Dan
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« Reply #478 on: May 21, 2012, 11:07:47 am »

I would argue that the protests were more of what most people heard about than the actual incident. Al, Jesse, NBA, musicians , Hollywood and the infamous Black Panthers etc. Ask most of the people about the case and i bet they don't know much about it but can tell you about who was standing up against it.
I can't imagine anyone who knew about the protests but didn't know what they were protesting.  In 1993, how many people do you suppose knew that there was some riot thing going on in LA, but had no idea what triggered it?
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Spider-Dan
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« Reply #479 on: May 21, 2012, 11:19:18 am »

Firing a gun during the commission of a crime (in this case the unnecessary firing of a gun) gets an automatic 20 years in this state.
I am somewhat skeptical (or amazed) that such a circular law can be written into the books.  So you get 10 years for drawing a gun during the commission of a crime... even when the only crime is the actual drawing of the gun?   That's absurd.  Effectively, you have set the MANDATORY (<--- this word is important) penalties for illegally drawing a gun at 10 years, illegally firing a gun at 20 years, and illegally killing someone with a gun at life.

Significantly, this means that if you kill someone with a gun and are convicted of manslaughter (which is a crime), you receive a mandatory life sentence.  With regards to the current case at hand, I think someone would have mentioned that manslaughter (by gun) carries a mandatory life sentence in the state of Florida.
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