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Poll
Question: Do you think Zimmerman is
Guilty   -5 (25%)
Not Guilty   -2 (10%)
Self Defense   -1 (5%)
You don't know enough to decide   -12 (60%)
Total Voters: 17

Author Topic: Trayvon Martin case  (Read 148983 times)
EKnight
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« Reply #540 on: June 21, 2012, 04:43:41 pm »

No no- i completely agree. But the example I used was to illustrate WHY there is no flat bail system, and why the rich aren't really "punished" by having higher bail- they're a more substantial flight risk. -EK
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badger6
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« Reply #541 on: June 21, 2012, 05:10:25 pm »

No no- i completely agree. But the example I used was to illustrate WHY there is no flat bail system, and why the rich aren't really "punished" by having higher bail- they're a more substantial flight risk. -EK

I understand how it works, but you're talking about someone with real wealth. I'm more referring to someone not wealthy but with a some money in the bank. The bail amount for a 25 year old with $2500 in saving should be no different than the bail amount for a 45 year old with $100k in savings. Anyhow, none of sideshow really has anything to do with the case itself as far as I'm concerned !!!
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Spider-Dan
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« Reply #542 on: June 22, 2012, 01:44:23 am »

So they basically tried to steal his pension and benefits as far as I can tell. Turn in your 2 weeks notice and then stop coming to work when the 2 weeks is up is what he should have done. What kind of crooked job won't let you resign. He needs to sue their ass ASAP !!!!
In case you hadn't noticed, the actions that he took that resulted in him being fired happened before he submitted his resignation.

He was trying to hurry up and resign before the mechanisms to review his actions could take place.  Why should anyone feel sorry for him?  He was fired because of decisions that he made.

Quote
Zimmerman was not upper class and was not a flight risk, I'm sure he was highly monitored. The donations he was given will be eaten up quickly by legal fees, living expenses, and security.
Not if he leaves the country, they won't.

But we're not discussing the abstract belief of whether bail should be set based on your wealth (or whether stricter gun control laws should be implemented, for that matter).  The plain and simple fact is that Zimmerman was required to accurately report his finances for purposes of setting bail, and he failed to do so.  Therefore, he goes back to jail.  It is just that simple.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2012, 01:53:01 am by Spider-Dan » Logged

Spider-Dan
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« Reply #543 on: June 22, 2012, 01:46:13 am »

It is not meant as a form of punishment and that is why you get it back. Bail is set to keep people from fleeing. He wasn't a flight risk and in fact is under 24 hour surveillance. He should have never been brought back to jail.
He is required to accurately report his finances for purposes of setting bail.
He failed to do so, therefore his bail was revoked.
Why is this even up for discussion?

It's not like you can honestly claim that he didn't know about it.  He was actively conspiring with his wife to hide it.  He understood that was he was doing was not allowed.  And he got caught.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2012, 01:54:15 am by Spider-Dan » Logged

Landshark
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« Reply #544 on: June 22, 2012, 06:25:51 am »

No that's very unfortunate. People are being penalized for being more successful financially ? In general, in life people that make more money can have things that less prosperous people can't have. Zimmerman was not upper class and was not a flight risk, I'm sure he was highly monitored. The donations he was given will be eaten up quickly by legal fees, living expenses, and security. It's not like he would have had any income while on bail anyhow. So lets just say for a minute that Zimmerman didn't receive any donations. But after his bail was set, I went and gave him the money to pay his bail. No one could say anything then, so what's the difference ?

Apparently you're not understanding the concept of bail.  Bail is basically a pledge to the court that you will appear at your trial.  In return, they allow you to go on with your life up until your trial.  Once you show up for your trial, you get your bail money back.  You don't lose any money paying bail (unless you get a bail bonds person). 

Many other countries do not permit pre-trial release on bail, so I'm thankful I live in the good ol' US of A.
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MyGodWearsAHoodie
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« Reply #545 on: June 22, 2012, 12:55:23 pm »

I understand how it works, but you're talking about someone with real wealth. I'm more referring to someone not wealthy but with a some money in the bank. The bail amount for a 25 year old with $2500 in saving should be no different than the bail amount for a 45 year old with $100k in savings. Anyhow, none of sideshow really has anything to do with the case itself as far as I'm concerned !!!

Absolute wealth is one factor, but is only a small factor in the setting of bail.

The reason why wealth is a factor is some one with $100,000 in cash can disappear more easily than someone with $2,500. 

The purpose of bail is to decrease the flight risk.  So someone with $100,000 in cash would likely have a higher bail than someone with $95,000 in home equity and $5,000 in cash.

Other more important factors than wealth include:  ties to the community, likelihood of conviction, past history of appearing or not appearing for court, etc. 
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There are two rules for success:
 1. Never tell everything you know.
badger6
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« Reply #546 on: June 22, 2012, 03:37:08 pm »

I very well understand the bail process. I have used it a couple time for myself. My point as it pertains to this case, what is the difference if Zimmerman's wife set up the website after the bail hearing and the donations came in after bail was set ? Or maybe a rich anonymous family member gave his wife a huge amount of cash afterwards to help out. The end result is the same so it's a moot point. Since he was being tracked 24/7 by law enforcement so he was no more a flight risk with or without the donations. Not to mention that the money in question had been voluntarily moved out of Zimmerman's control into a legal defense fund within a few days of posting bail. This whole thing is just a silly circus. The prosecutor doing his job and making a rebound from the indictment sheet ridiculed by most legal scholars. Just a fresh opportunity to keep the lynch mob rolling.
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Spider-Dan
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« Reply #547 on: June 22, 2012, 04:32:28 pm »

I very well understand the bail process. I have used it a couple time for myself. My point as it pertains to this case, what is the difference if Zimmerman's wife set up the website after the bail hearing and the donations came in after bail was set ?
Then she wouldn't have had to commit perjury and everything would have been fine.

Quote
The end result is the same so it's a moot point.
Whether Martin died from a gunshot in 2012 or died from a stroke in 2080, the end result is the same: he's dead either way.  Free Zimmerman!

Details matter.
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badger6
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« Reply #548 on: June 22, 2012, 05:39:47 pm »

Then she wouldn't have had to commit perjury and everything would have been fine.

My point exactly. So the situation would be pretty much the same and his bail would be pretty much the same except for the fact that his wife misrepresented the donations. As far as I can tell, if the situation would have happened like that, he would still be out on bail and actually have possession of the money. So actually he would have been more of a flight risk. The fact that the court was notified and the money was voluntarily moved to a trust actually removed the flight risk. They realized their error and corrected pretty quickly.

Whether Martin died from a gunshot in 2012 or died from a stroke in 2080, the end result is the same: he's dead either way.  Free Zimmerman!

Details matter.

The end result is the same so it's a moot point
was referring to whether if he got the donations pre or post bail hearing. It's the same so it's a zero sum game and doesn't matter. When and how Travon died has nothing to do with what I'm talking about and you know it. You like to twist shit all up don't ya spider ?
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Spider-Dan
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« Reply #549 on: June 22, 2012, 09:41:51 pm »

Here's the thing: the situation DIDN'T happen like that, and she DID perjure herself.

Are you seriously arguing for a parallel universe in which they didn't receive the money until after the bail hearing?  Because if that's the case, I'd prefer a parallel universe in which Zimmerman got back in his SUV when the 911 operator told him to stop following Martin.
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el diablo
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« Reply #550 on: June 22, 2012, 10:33:43 pm »

^^^^^ Dude, if the fact that George was trying to speak in code to his wife about the "Peter Pan" account doesn't register. Nothing will. 
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badger6
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« Reply #551 on: June 23, 2012, 04:49:29 pm »

Here's the thing: the situation DIDN'T happen like that, and she DID perjure herself.

Are you seriously arguing for a parallel universe in which they didn't receive the money until after the bail hearing?  Because if that's the case, I'd prefer a parallel universe in which Zimmerman got back in his SUV when the 911 operator told him to stop following Martin.

No, I'm not arguing anything really. Just trying to illustrate the point that this is all just for show. None of it really has anything to do with the case.
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el diablo
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« Reply #552 on: June 24, 2012, 11:24:09 am »

Except for his credibility.
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badger6
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« Reply #553 on: June 24, 2012, 12:31:28 pm »

Except for his credibility.

The same could be said about Martin.
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Spider-Dan
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« Reply #554 on: June 24, 2012, 01:00:42 pm »

Martin's dead, so I'm not sure how his credibility plays into it.  He isn't making any statements from beyond the grave.
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