Good for Roger.

[Spider-Dan]

Barry had 3 MVPs before the home run explosion.  I think his ticket to Cooperstown was punched long before his retirement.

I think the worst case scenario for Barry is something similar to Pete Rose.  There will be a lot of hemming and hawing over it, but both of them will be in the HOF when it is all said and done.

[MaineDolFan]

I don't care if Clemens had a better career.  Fact is, he cheated to have it.

This is a crap statement.  Do some research.

[Landshark]

I think the worst case scenario for Barry is something similar to Pete Rose.  There will be a lot of hemming and hawing over it, but both of them will be in the HOF when it is all said and done.

Pete Rose will never be a Hall Of Famer as long as Bud Selig is in the commissioner's office.  A buddy of mine is of the opinion that he will never get in while he is still breathing.  Then after he punches his ticket to that big ballpark in the sky, MLB will induct him posthumously to honor his achievements as a player.

This is a crap statement.  Do some research.

For a guy like you that I've heard is notoriously known for going off on players who are busted for steroids, I find your defense of ROIDger Clemens disturbing. 

[bsmooth]

^^ Baseball-reference.com has Clemons as the 12th best pitcher by their criteria and Palmeiro as the 119th best hitter. Pameiro is definately hall material, but first ballot hall material? I don't think so.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/clemero02.shtml

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/palmera01.shtml

Clemens was a power pitcher and was on the decline for three years straight when suddenly at the age of 35 his arm became as strong as when he was young, and then went on a tear that resembled him in his athletic prime. This also happened to coincide when he was to have started taking PED's. Hell even his wife admitted to taking PED's from Clemen's trainer.
It is naive toi think that his sudden resurgence was all natural.

[masterfins]

  Then after he punches his ticket to that big ballpark in the sky, MLB will induct him posthumously to honor his achievements as a player.

I don't think they'll do it to honor his achievements, they'll do it to make money off of him.

[masterfins]

^^ Baseball-reference.com has Clemons as the 12th best pitcher by their criteria and Palmeiro as the 119th best hitter. Pameiro is definately hall material, but first ballot hall material? I don't think so.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/clemero02.shtml

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/palmera01.shtml

Baseball-reference.com may have Palmeiro as the 119th best hitter, but only 25 players have reached the 500 home run mark, and only 28 players have reached the 3,000 hit mark, Palmeiro has done both.  Only four other players have accomplished both these feats (Aaron, Mays, and Eddie Murray - ALL HOFers).  To say Paleiro would not be a first ballot inductee (w/o the steroid debate) is far fetched IMO.

[bsmooth]

This is a crap statement.  Do some research.

I have Maine. Clemens was a power pitcher who after being dominant in his prime was in a decline in his mid 30's. This is not uncommon for power pitchers. Yet in 1997 he seemed to miraculously regain his youth and went on a tear throughout his late 30's and into his 40's of similar stats to his athletic prime.
During this time there was rampant steroid use in the league, he was teammates with multiple people who have used or are suspected of using, and his wife was injected by his own personal trainer.
But you are right there is nothing to make people believe Roger Clemons ever cheated.

[bsmooth]

Barry had 3 MVPs before the home run explosion.  I think his ticket to Cooperstown was punched long before his retirement.

I think the worst case scenario for Barry is something similar to Pete Rose.  There will be a lot of hemming and hawing over it, but both of them will be in the HOF when it is all said and done.

I agree that he was well on his way to the HoF when he went to SF. This is why I have never understood his decision to use PED's. He did not need them as he had the talent.

[Pappy13]

Clemens was a power pitcher and was on the decline for three years straight when suddenly at the age of 35 his arm became as strong as when he was young, and then went on a tear that resembled him in his athletic prime. This also happened to coincide when he was to have started taking PED's. Hell even his wife admitted to taking PED's from Clemen's trainer.
It is naive toi think that his sudden resurgence was all natural.

I'll buy that, but what percentage of players do you think were taking PED's at the time? 50%? 70%? Higher? There were guys in the '80's experimenting with PED's when I was playing college baseball. You really think that just about anyone in Baseball hadn't tried them at one time or another? Maybe Roger was using them more than most, but he certainly wasn't one of the few using them, he was one of the majority.

[Pappy13]

I agree that he was well on his way to the HoF when he went to SF. This is why I have never understood his decision to use PED's. He did not need them as he had the talent.

Everyone was taking them or just about everyone. It's not about HoF or not HoF for these guys, they want to be the BEST in baseball period. If another guy is getting an advantage by popping some pills, then you're going to try it too. That's just the way professional sports is.

[Spider-Dan]

I honestly believe that the '98 season is what did Barry in.  He looked at the adulation surrounding a scrub like Sammy Sosa and (not unfairly) thought, "Well, if people are going to turn this blind of an eye, screw it, let's go."

Barry is really the star example of what happens when you take a player who is already at the top of the league and give him PEDs.  He basically became a demigod.

[Landshark]

I'll buy that, but what percentage of players do you think were taking PED's at the time? 50%? 70%? Higher? There were guys in the '80's experimenting with PED's when I was playing college baseball. You really think that just about anyone in Baseball hadn't tried them at one time or another? Maybe Roger was using them more than most, but he certainly wasn't one of the few using them, he was one of the majority.

You hit it right on the head.  How do you know he wasn't using cheating the whole time as opposed to when he had his resurgence?  According to Canseco's tell all book, guys were using PED's all the time as far back as the 80's. 

[MaineDolFan]

For a guy like you that I've heard is notoriously known for going off on players who are busted for steroids, I find your defense of ROIDger Clemens disturbing. 

Is this English?  Did you type it with your nose, while drinking?

Again, do some research. 

My regards,
"A guy"

[Landshark]

Is this English?  Did you type it with your nose, while drinking?

Again, do some research. 

My regards,
"A guy"

I have.  So has bsmooth.  His accomplishments will be forever tainted by this scandal, and who's to say he wasn't using cheating his entire career?

And if the best you can do is take some swipes at me below the belt with comments like that, than maybe you should just keep quiet.

[bsmooth]

Is this English?  Did you type it with your nose, while drinking?

Again, do some research. 

My regards,
"A guy"

Maine,
How do you explain Clemens sudden resurgence in 1997 after a three year decline and in his mid 30"s. Also how did this resurgence continue into his 40's? His career from 1997 on looked eerily similar to his stats during the first part of his career before his decline started.