Joe Pa emails

[Spider-Dan]

No it isn't based solely on the McQueary incident.  It's based on all the boys he molested over that tome between the mid 80s and now, and the fact that it was covered up all that time.

What evidence is there that the PSU brass was covering up anything but the 2001 incident?  If this evidence all existed from the '80s, why did the state attorney decline to charge Sandusky in '98?

Do not confuse what Sandusky was convicted for with what Paterno and Curley conspired to hide.  The latter is a tiny subset of the former.

And again, I am still waiting to hear why, if it is the Board of Trustees that was derelict in their duty to manage the Athletic Department, why is it that only the football program should be shut down?  The Board of Trustees' responsibility goes far beyond the football team.

[Landshark]

What evidence is there that the PSU brass was covering up anything but the 2001 incident?  If this evidence all existed from the '80s, why did the state attorney decline to charge Sandusky in '98?

Do not confuse what Sandusky was convicted for with what Paterno and Curley conspired to hide.  The latter is a tiny subset of the former.

And again, I am still waiting to hear why, if it is the Board of Trustees that was derelict in their duty to manage the Athletic Department, why is it that only the football program should be shut down?  The Board of Trustees' responsibility goes far beyond the football team.

And that state attorney supposedly disappeared years later and his laptop was found in a river damaged beyond repair.  You know there's a lot more to this than what is being let on

[bsmooth]

What evidence is there that the PSU brass was covering up anything but the 2001 incident?  If this evidence all existed from the '80s, why did the state attorney decline to charge Sandusky in '98?

Do not confuse what Sandusky was convicted for with what Paterno and Curley conspired to hide.  The latter is a tiny subset of the former.

And again, I am still waiting to hear why, if it is the Board of Trustees that was derelict in their duty to manage the Athletic Department, why is it that only the football program should be shut down?  The Board of Trustees' responsibility goes far beyond the football team.

1998 not 2001. But to the board of trustee's. The cash cow for PSU is the football program. To lose it even temporarily would cost the whole board their jobs and force future trustees to realize that the school is more than any one program.

[Spider-Dan]

So the football program should be shut down... because it makes the most money?  Put another way, if this was a former baseball coach instead, the NCAA should still make sure that football is shut down, because that's the cash cow?

This is the core of the argument.  I think that at this point, people are simply looking for some way to inflict damage on Penn State, whether its on the people who were the problem or not.

Again, to compare to SMU, there you had everyone all the way up and down the chain who was complicit: the players, the coaches, the brass, the boosters.  In this case, you are talking about 4 people who were involved (plus Sandusky).  I don't think you shut down the football program over the illicit actions of 4 people, when said actions did not provide any sort of benefit to the team or the university.  These were rogue agents acting in their own personal best interests, and I don't think (having made the choice to fire these wayward employees) PSU should be held accountable for their actions any more than the Falcons should have been held accountable for Vick's dogfighting.

[suck for luck]

You are either delusional or you just like to argue.

This is ALL ABOUT THE FOOTBALL PROGRAM. Football is king at college, and Jo Pa was God at Happy Valley. THAT WAS THE PROBLEM.

To argue that this is only about Sanduskey and that because he wasn't *employed* by PSU during the majority of his reign of terror is beyond asinine.

[Spider-Dan]

Paterno was fired.  Everyone involved with accommodating Paterno's illicit request was fired.  Some of them are facing criminal charges.

Sounds like THE PROBLEM has been addressed.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Paterno was fired.  Everyone involved with accommodating Paterno's illicit request was fired.  Some of them are facing criminal charges.

Sounds like THE PROBLEM has been addressed.

I guess in your eyes the Catholic church has completely resolved the problem priest pediphiles as well?

[Spider-Dan]

Um, except the Catholic Church was and is still protecting the people involved in their coverups.  Every person that was made aware of Sandusky at PSU (and did nothing) was fired.

But let's take your analogy to its conclusion: should the Pope shut down the churches where those molesting priests held services?

[Spider-Dan]

So here's a rather disturbing tale:

Teen endured shame, fear and threats to launch Sandusky prosecution – USATODAY.com

A short excerpt:

The public backlash, Gillum said, was almost immediate and jarring. Within weeks, the boy's mother reported to state investigators that she was confronted in a Lock Haven business by an unhappy local resident who had learned that her son had been linked to the allegations triggering Sandusky's removal as a volunteer.

The child's identity spread rapidly through the community, the psychologist said, making him and his mother the target of harassment — and ultimately threats of harm — by locals upset that Sandusky had been dismissed from the school.

[Landshark]

Just saw on the news that the statue has been taken down and the NCAA is going to drop the hammer tomorrow

[BigDaddyFin]

Anything but the death penalty is a travesty

[Spider-Dan]

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8188629/penn-state-nittany-lions-not-facing-death-penalty-monday-ncaa-source-says

NCAA president Mark Emmert has decided to punish Penn State with severe penalties likely to include a significant loss of scholarships and loss of multiple bowls, a source close to the decision told ESPN's Joe Schad on Sunday morning.

But Penn State will not receive the so-called "death penalty" that would have suspended the program for at least one year, the source said.

The penalties, however, are considered to be so harsh that the death penalty may have been preferable, the source said.

--

Another excerpt I found interesting (that basically said the same thing I've been saying from the beginning):

"This is unique and this kind of power has never been tested or tried," the former chair said. "It's unprecedented to have this extensive power. This has nothing to do with the purpose of the infractions process. Nevertheless, somehow (the NCAA president and executive board) have taken it on themselves to be a commissioner and to penalize a school for improper conduct."

NCAA presidents past and present have made a point of saying they are not akin to a commissioner in professional sports and don't have the power to penalize players, coaches or schools independently.

The former chair said the only "rule" that the NCAA could be holding onto here is a lack of institutional control.

"I would be surprised if they're treating this as simply a lack of institutional control under the rules," the former chair said. "Because then that would technically go through the committee."

The chair said that the NCAA is choosing to deal with a case that is outside the traditional rules or violations. He said this case does not fall within the basic fundamental purpose of NCAA regulations.

"The purpose of the NCAA is to keep a level playing field among schools and to make sure they use proper methods through scholarships and etcetera," the chair said. "This is not a case that would normally go through the process. It has nothing to do with a level playing field. It has nothing to do with whether Penn State gets advantages over other schools in recruiting or in the number of coaches or things that we normally deal with."

The former chair said as an example the NCAA didn't get involved in the murder of Yeardley Love, a women's lacrosse player at Virginia, by her former boyfriend, a male lacrosse player at Virginia.

[Landshark]

Absolute power corrupts.

[MaineDolFan]

The "lack of institutitional control" didn't actually cause any problems with the sport.  Could it have?  Sure, but there is no evidence to that effect.

Of course it did.  The school had limited power to remove / do anything to the / a coach, even when it needed to.  This could have resulted in lack of progress on the field, thus limiting it's resources within the sport.

[Spider-Dan]

(emphasis added)

The "lack of institutitional control" didn't actually cause any problems with the sport.  Could it have?  Sure, but there is no evidence to that effect.

Of course it did.  The school had limited power to remove / do anything to the / a coach, even when it needed to.  This could have resulted in lack of progress on the field, thus limiting it's resources within the sport.

It seems like you're saying that it could have caused a problem, which is not the same thing as did.