The bell tolls for Penn State

[MaineDolFan]

The NCAA didn't levy the Death Penalty.

It was worse.  Read on.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaa-hits-penn-state-football-130932180--ncaaf.html

[JVides]

Wow...as Boomer Esiason said, they killed the program without klling the program.

[Phishfan]

I really don't think vacating wins is worse than the death penalty. Although it puts a dent on the schools overall record, I don't think many people are going to sit back and dwell on the fact that a game they saw Penn State win is now considered a technical loss. The biggest thing (and the reason behind this I think) is that the taking away of these wins knocks Paterno out of the winnningest coach's position.

The death penalty is so severe, there is a reason it has only been handed out to one team in college football and to only five teams in history.

[CF DolFan]

I really don't think vacating wins is worse than the death penalty. Although it puts a dent on the schools overall record, I don't think many people are going to sit back and dwell on the fact that a game they saw Penn State win is now considered a technical loss. The biggest thing (and the reason behind this I think) is that the taking away of these wins knocks Paterno out of the winnningest coach's position.

The death penalty is so severe, there is a reason it has only been handed out to one team in college football and to only five teams in history.

From a Fox report...


Other sanctions include a four-year ban on postseason games that will prevent Penn State from playing for the Big Ten title, the loss of 20 scholarships per year over four years and five years' probation. The NCAA also said that any current or incoming football players are free to immediately transfer and compete at another school.

NCAA President Mark Emmert announced the staggering sanctions at a news conference in Indianapolis. Though the NCAA stopped short of imposing the ''death penalty'' - shutting down the Nittany Lions' program completely. But the punishment is so severe, it's more like a slow-death penalty.

Losing out on 20 scholarships a year is huge outside of not playing in the bowl games. That's 25% of their scholarships. I'm glad current players can transfer although getting money right now will be difficult for the current season.

''Football will never again be placed ahead of educating, nurturing and protecting young people,'' Emmert said.

[Phishfan]

These are pretty big hits. Another thing (although not an oddicial sanction) I expect to see is very few Penn State games on TV. I expect there will be some network backlash to carrying many of their games.

[Pappy13]

I liked the ruling. It punishes those responsible for the coverup without severly effecting the players who weren't responsible. No they won't be able to play in a bowl game this year or the next 3 years if they decide to stay at Penn St. but they will be playing football for Penn St. this year which is better than not playing at all. Also I believe they don't even have to play football this year to receive their scholarship (heard that on Mike and Mike this morning so don't quote me on that). They could continue their education this year while they make plans to switch schools next year since it will be hard for most to switch now.

[Spider-Dan]

The scholarship losses are a bit over the top.

Money is money; PSU has already had a record fundraising year, so I'm fine with making sure that they aren't profiting off of this.  Vacating wins to tarnish Paterno's legacy is just.  I think those are appropriate punishments for conduct that did not give PSU any sort of competitive edge.

As I mentioned in a previous post, by unilaterally handing down this punishment, the NCAA president has now appointed himself commissioner of college sports.  If a college coach kills someone while drunk driving, he will no longer be able to play the "I'm not a commissioner, I can't directly punish players, coaches, or schools" card.

[Spider-Dan]

I really don't think vacating wins is worse than the death penalty. Although it puts a dent on the schools overall record, I don't think many people are going to sit back and dwell on the fact that a game they saw Penn State win is now considered a technical loss. The biggest thing (and the reason behind this I think) is that the taking away of these wins knocks Paterno out of the winnningest coach's position.

I agree.  The death penalty hurts your team in the present and future; declaring that wins from the past don't count is a totally different animal, and really only affects the history books.  The scholarship losses will have a much bigger impact.

My understanding was that Penn State was not eligible for the death penalty, because there is a very strict requirement: the death penalty can only be applied to a program that was already on probation when they committed a violation.

[Pappy13]

My understanding was that Penn State was not eligible for the death penalty, because there is a very strict requirement: the death penalty can only be applied to a program that was already on probation when they committed a violation.

I don't believe that is correct. It was my understanding that the NCAA did look at the death penalty and said that it was on the table, but that it was determined that would hurt the players as much as the football program. They felt like the punishment they gave hurt the football program more than the players.

[Phishfan]

the death penalty can only be applied to a program that was already on probation when they committed a violation.

Wikipedia has to be taken for what it is. I actually looked up the ruling earlier today and it had a different take. Here is part of it.

However, in 1985, in response to rampant violations at several schools, the NCAA Council passed the "repeat violator" rule. The rule stipulates that if a second major violation occurs at any institution within five years of being on probation in the same sport or another sport, that institution can be barred from competing in the sport involved in the second violation for either one or two seasons. In cases of particularly egregious misconduct, a school can also be stripped of its right to vote at NCAA conventions for four years. The severity of the penalty led the media to dub it "the death penalty," and the nickname has persisted to this day.[2] However, if the NCAA finds a school has engaged in a "pattern of willful violations," it can look back to when the violations first occurred, even if they are outside the five-year window.[3] It also still has the power to ban a school from competing in a sport without any preliminaries in cases of particularly egregious violations. However, the "repeat violator" rule gave the Infractions Committees of the various NCAA divisions specific instances where they must either bar a school from competing or explain why they did not.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_penalty_(NCAA)

[Dave Gray]

I'd still shut the program down entirely for at least a year.  I don't care one bit about what it does to the future of the football team.

[masterfins]

This is sooo much worse than the death penalty.  Losing 10 scholarships per year for 4 years, allowing players to immediately be able to transfer AND play, allowing existing players to use their scholarships (which count against the total) and not have to play, ineligible for confererence championships and bowl play for 4 years, plus probation.  It effectively has made the football program non-existent for at least six years.  The only players they will have are D2 and D3 guys.  What D1 player in their right mind would want to go and play there anytime in the next 4-5 years.  Once a team sucks for a couple years it takes quite awhile to build back up, see the Miami Dolphins. It sucks for existing seniors as it would be hard for them to transfer, also for juniors.  Any decent freshman or sophmores will most likely transfer if they have half a brain.  In listening to the news conference I got the impression that the only reason they didn't get the death penalty is that the NCAA didn't want a backlash from individuals related to game day operations losing their jobs, and the band having nowhere to play.

This was way over the top.

@Pappy "It punishes those responsible"?? Don't know what you are referring to as the four or five indivduals that had a part in this are all gone, so how exactly are they being punished by this??

[Phishfan]

This is sooo much worse than the death penalty.    It effectively has made the football program non-existent for at least six years.  

The death penalty did much more than that to SMU. It doesn't even scale to the death penalty if you ask me . Losing football for a year isn't the only punishment during a death penalty (of course we only have one example within this sport to use as evidence). There are additonal losses of scholarships once the program returns, postseason bans, probation periods, etc.

Modified to add that I guess it does scale to the death penalty but that it is in now way worse. How is having something (even in a dimished form) worse than having nothing? I think that is just what people who may have advocated them getting the death penalty are saying to help justify the results they actually got.

[Cathal]

I guess I should read up on what exactly happened since this seems like a huge penalty to what I thought only a handful of people were involved in.

[Pappy13]

@Pappy "It punishes those responsible"?? Don't know what you are referring to as the four or five indivduals that had a part in this are all gone, so how exactly are they being punished by this??

I don't really know who all was let go as a part of this or what all the investigation uncovered, but I'm assuming that there was a heck of a lot more than 4 or 5 people at Penn St. that made it possible for Paterno and the others to cover this up over the last 10 years.