Training camp begins today

[EKnight]

^^Agree with this 100%. Anyone who thinks otherwise is fooling himself. -EK

[Dolphster]

I'd say Hoodie has a pretty reasonable outlook on how the division will fall out.  I wish he was a Dolphins fan because he is usually one of the most rational and insightful posters on the site.  How much do we need to pay you in order to get you to switch allegiances, hoodie?   

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

How much do we need to pay you in order to get you to switch allegiances, hoodie?   

Only one way.

I got a nephew who play high school football.  Probably good enough to play college.  If by some chance he turns out good enough to play pro and he plays for the Dolphins I will be a Dolphin fan for as long as he is on the team. 

Rooting for a family member would be the only way I would switch. 

[Pappy13]

Dolphins - Not very good last year, no real upgrades, 1st round pick used on a player that is projected to sit on the bench.  5-8 wins. 

Just because they used the 8th pick on Tannehill, I wouldn't classify the draft as no real upgrades. Actually compared to last year's draft, I think this one will be better even if Tannehill doesn't play a down this year (which I doubt). Consider the following.

2011 Draft - Tannehill QB, Martin OT, Vernon DE, Egnew TE, Miller RB, Kaddu OLB, Cunningham WR, Randall DT, Matthews WR
2010 Draft - Pouncey C, Thomas RB, Gates WR, Clay FB, Kearse DT, Wilson DB

- Pouncey was solid, but Martin will likely be just as much of a upgrade at RT.

- Thomas showed a little early on, but I was underwhelmed. Miller looks like he'll contribute more this year and in the following years.

- I thought Gates would struggle with routes and he has, but his hands are also suspect. Not sure that Cunningham or Matthews are any better, but I really love the kid Fuller that Miami got as an undrafted free agent. I suspect that Gates will be cut and Fuller will at the very least be kept on the practice squad if he doesn't make the 53 man roster.

- Clay played well later in the year as a threat to catch the ball out of the backfield. Engew will probably be an even bigger threat from the TE position.

- Kearse is gone, so if Vernon and/or Randall even make the team which seems likely it will be an improvement.

- Wilson has a shot at starting this year which might be the biggest surprise of last year's draft, but he's still really green and probably will need a little more seasoning.

- That leaves Kaddu and Tannehill from this year's draft. I haven't heard a lot about Kaddu, so don't know how he's doing, but early reports on Tannehill are encouraging. He's not that far behind the other QB's and that's all that can really be expected right now since both Garrard and Moore have so much experience on him. I still think it's quite possible that Miami cuts either Garrard or Moore, whichever doesn't win the starting role and they keep Tannehill as the #2 QB and Devlin as the #3. The reports are that Devlin is looking much improved and there simply aren't enough balls to go around for everyone.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

^^^ I am not saying that the Dolphins drafted poorly and everyone will be useless.  But there is nobody that is a game changer.   

[Pappy13]

^^^ I am not saying that the Dolphins drafted poorly and everyone will be useless.  But there is nobody that is a game changer.   

You mean this year? Personally I think that Tannehill and Miller will eventually be game changers although probably not this year and a couple more have potential although probably not game changers like Egnew and Vernon. I really liked this draft, but what do I know. Dolphins won't be in contention for the division and probably won't even be in contention for the playoffs this year, but I think they did improve.

I also liked the switch to the west coast offense and from a 3-4 to a 4-3 defense. I think both fit the personell better. I expect big years from Cameron Wake, who was dropping into coverage too often last year and will be just getting after the QB this year and Jared Odrick who moves a little further away from the ball where he can use his athleticism a little better. Clay, Miller and Egnew are perfect fits for a west coast offense.

[MikeO]

Jets - I think the Jets success will come down to what magic Tony S call pull off with Tebow and Sanchez.  Jets will be solid on defense, so it is really up to the offense.  Sanchez/Tebow >>> Pennington/Brown if they can make it work, e.g. line up with both of them and Sanchez actually be able catch a football thrown by Tebow, Jets could shock the league and win the SB.  OTOH, after week 2 there could be a divide in the lockerroom over who should be the QB and the team go 4-12.

I don't see the Jets as solid on defense. Once again its a team that keeps taking steps backwards. Where is the pass rush? Their safety's aren't anything special. Cromartie is Cromartie. The days of the dominating Jets defense are long gone.

[MikeO]

The Dolphins upgraded at HEAD COACH! Something people forget. Even without ever coaching a ball game Philbin can't be worse than Tony "FG kickin-Fist-Pumpin" Sprano! It would almost be impossible for Philbin to be worse.

Also one could make the case that cutting Marshall is addition by subtraction with that lunatic. Not everyone will agree (don't need to have the same debate for the 10,000th time) but that might be the case in the long-run.

The offensive line has upgraded on the right side. Younger and more athletic. More depth as well with Murtha back.

We have a solid NICKLE CB and upgraded there.

We have quality DEPTH at QB. Something we didn't have last year

I don't see how anyone can say this team hasn't upgraded. This team won 6 games last year, granted vs terrible teams, but they won 6 after a horrible start and upgraded in many areas. This team isn't going to the playoffs, but they won't be awful like most think.

Last year this team was the 24th ranked RED ZONE OFFENSE, if they just get up to 15 or 16 in that category they will win 8 or 9 games and be at .500 or better with the defense Miami has.

[MikeO]

^^^ I am not saying that the Dolphins drafted poorly and everyone will be useless.  But there is nobody that is a game changer.   

Jees can we play a game before this blanket statement? Egnew might be a game changer. Vernon could be a specialty pass rushing game changer.

[Spider-Dan]

We have quality DEPTH at QB. Something we didn't have last year

That's like saying the Patriots have "quality depth" at RB.

Sure, the competition for the starting job is very closely matched.  But one of the guys competing sat at home unemployed last year, so that does not indicate "quality."  Moore and Garrard would have trouble making the roster on most of the teams in the league (Garrard obviously so).

[EKnight]

Miami upgraded- but not enough to not finish last in the division again. And oh yeah- the Jets- not solid at all on defense. Only 5th best D in football last year, although I'm sure there's some spin on how Miami's "can't stop anybody with their secondary, finished 15th overall" D is better. Insofar as pass rush, they had a whopping 6 less sacks than Miami, but more than made up for it turning the ball over- top 10 in INTs and led the league in forced fumbles. That's a defense that's still better than what Miami put on the field. Two years from now, the Dolphins may be a Wildcard team. This year, they're an AFC East last place team. -EK

[MikeO]

It takes 2 years to "maybe" become a "Wild Card Team" in the NFL? Teams don't make the jump sooner? Hmm, nobody told Cincy and SF  that last year when they went from a bottom feeders to the playoffs overnight. ha ha, oh brother!

I like the fact we will TODAY use stats to base things on. (tomorrow when it works against an argument ...ie anything with Tebow or Sanchez...we won't, but I will play along today) Miami is 3rd in rushing defense.  the Jets 13th. Miami was 6th in scoring defense. The Jets were 20th in Scoring defense. Last time I checked the NFL keeps score in points and that's what those big numbers on the scoreboard keep track of.. The Dolphins were 10th in sacks. Jets 17th.  Dolphins defense gave up 31 TD's. The Jets gave up 39.

So by looking at these numbers you can assume the Jets defense is "GREAT" and the Dolphins "SUCKS".

And yet the Dolphins are 2 years away from "MAYBE" being a Wildcard team and the Jets are on the brink of greatness. ha ha ha ha ha!  You can't make it up!


I'm starting to put some stuff together here. EK hated the Tannehill pick. Yet, loves Tebow/Sanchez. EK wanted Miami to draft Quinton Coples. Coples lands on the Jets. Dolphins defense sucks in his eyes. Yet the Jets defense is great. And EK seems REALLY REALLY happy to predict the Fins to be a last place team this year. I'm thinkin EK is FIREMAN ED! I'm thinking he is really Fireman Ed! I have unmasked him. No wonder he loved Brandon Marshall. Every time he dropped a pass, smacked around a woman, and got arrested it meant bad things for Miami. Wouldn't Fireman Ed (errr EK) love that! ha ha ha

[MikeO]

That's like saying the Patriots have "quality depth" at RB.

Sure, the competition for the starting job is very closely matched.  But one of the guys competing sat at home unemployed last year, so that does not indicate "quality."  Moore and Garrard would have trouble making the roster on most of the teams in the league (Garrard obviously so).

ehh, I see your point but still disagree and I think you are missing my point. The last full season Garrard played 2010, he made the pro bowl (and that was in Jax who had less weapons that Miami has currently). He was hurt last year. I am not holding it against him that he was hurt.  I am saying you can't use the ...he didn't play last year....as a basis to say he sucks or is nothing special. He was injured. He couldn't play. Not that nobody wanted him. Hell Oakland and Miami were begging for him, he just couldn't play. He was hurt.

Now Moore sucks, I ain't changing on that. The proof is in the pudding.  But Tannehill I believe will be OK in time.  The point I was making is would you rather have Henne/Moore/Devlin or Garrard/Tannehill/Moore. In my eyes its an upgrade. Still not a great overall unit (unless Tannehill comes along faster than everyone thinks), I never said they were. But its an upgrade overall at the position.

[EKnight]

It takes 2 years to "maybe" become a "Wild Card Team" in the NFL? Teams don't make the jump sooner? Hmm, nobody told Cincy and SF  that last year when they went from a bottom feeders to the playoffs overnight. ha ha, oh brother!

I like the fact we will TODAY use stats to base things on. (tomorrow when it works against an argument ...ie anything with Tebow or Sanchez...we won't, but I will play along today) Miami is 3rd in rushing defense.  the Jets 13th. Miami was 6th in scoring defense. The Jets were 20th in Scoring defense. Last time I checked the NFL keeps score in points and that's what those big numbers on the scoreboard keep track of.. The Dolphins were 10th in sacks. Jets 17th.  Dolphins defense gave up 31 TD's. The Jets gave up 39.

So by looking at these numbers you can assume the Jets defense is "GREAT" and the Dolphins "SUCKS".

And yet the Dolphins are 2 years away from "MAYBE" being a Wildcard team and the Jets are on the brink of greatness. ha ha ha ha ha!  You can't make it up!

I'm starting to put some stuff together here. EK hated the Tannehill pick. Yet, loves Tebow/Sanchez. EK wanted Miami to draft Quinton Coples. Coples lands on the Jets. Dolphins defense sucks in his eyes. Yet the Jets defense is great. And EK seems REALLY REALLY happy to predict the Fins to be a last place team this year. I'm thinkin EK is FIREMAN ED! I'm thinking he is really Fireman Ed! I have unmasked him. No wonder he loved Brandon Marshall. Every time he dropped a pass, smacked around a woman, and got arrested it meant bad things for Miami. Wouldn't Fireman Ed (errr EK) love that! ha ha ha

You're literally trying to make the argument that a 6-10 team that is clearly in a rebuilding season and that traded away it's best offensive player is better than an 8-8 team that lost who? I never said the defense "sucked." I also never said the Jets were on the brink of ANYTHING. I actually never said where I thought they'd finish- only that Miami would finish behind them. As per usual, you twist the words to fit your warped argument. Same old song. I love that you keep harping on the "6th in the league in scoring defense" bullshit for a 6-10 team. News flash- they were 27th in the league in 4th quarter scoring allowed, and last time I checked the final score is what matters, not how many points you give up through 3/4 of the game. So keep telling us all how the NFL keeps score in ponts, and I'll keep reminding you they also play four quarters and the team finished last in the division AND its six embarrasing wins came against teams with a combined 40-56. They lost EVERY game they played against a team with a winning record. ALL OF THEM. At least the Jets beat a couple of playoff teams.  Now...flat out tell me how a 5th in the league defense is worse in any capacity than a 15th ranked D. You keep coming back to "points are what matters," well last I checked the Jets scored more points than their opponents 2 more times than Miami did. Wait, wait...tell us again how you can't make this stuff up....-EK

[MikeO]

You're literally trying to make the argument that a 6-10 team that is clearly in a rebuilding season and that traded away it's best offensive player is better than an 8-8 team that lost who? I never said the defense "sucked." I also never said the Jets were on the brink of ANYTHING. I actually never said where I thought they'd finish- only that Miami would finish behind them. As per usual, you twist the words to fit your warped argument. I love that you keep harping on the "6th in the league in scoring defense" bullshit for a 6-10 team. News flash- they were 27th in the league in 4th quarter scoring allowed, and last time I checked the final score is what matters, not how many points you give up through 3/4 of the game. So keep telling us all how the NFL keeps score in ponts, and I'll keep reminding you they also play four quarters and the team finished last in the division AND its six embarrasing wins came against teams with a combined 40-56. They lost EVERY game they played against a team with a winning record. ALL OF THEM. At least the Jets beat a couple of playoff teams.  Now...flat out tell me how a 5th in the league defense is worse in any capacity than a 15th ranked D. I'll be waiting. -EK

Comparing a 6-10 team to am 8-8 team is outlandish? I think not! Especially since the 6-10 team BEAT them Week 17 to knock them out of the playoffs essentially. And teh 8-8 team didn't even make the playoffs. Yeah, not that crazy.

And I will keep harping on 6th in scoring defense if you keep harping on other stats. See, either ALL the stats count. Or NONE of them do! You can't use stats to back up a stance and then tell others they aren't allowed. Doesn't work that way! You want to cherry pick stats! I already told you how the Jets defense is worse.  Which defense gave up more points and more touchdowns? Jets! Nuff said.  Forced fumbles and INT's are nice, but at the end of the day we keep score in points. Not who gets more turnovers. You obviously disagree and you are entitled to disagree and be wrong, so settle down! Take a breath.

I like how in your world WINS and LOSSES only reflect on the defense and not the offense. And the Dolphins wins were against bad teams , meaning there defense sucks?? Not the fact that the offense couldn't score vs good teams at all.  But you use the 6 wins vs garbage teams to prop up Matt Moore.?? Once again confusing logic to say the least.  As always, can't make this stuff up! : )

And in closing that 8-8 team lost a few guys. Plaxico, LT, Jim Leonhard. And their Oline which was awful last year, they didn't upgrade that at all. They have no RB to speak of. And they brought in a bunch of coaches that failed in Miami to guide them Sparano, DeGugliemo...etc.

In my book the Jets are in the same boat as Miami. 7-9 win mark and nothing special. If you want to drink their bath water go for it. They ain't anything special and the defense gets worse every year in NY.