Blue jays and Marlins blockbuster trade

[Dave Gray]

I am already upset with the nature of baseball, as I've been vocal about for the last 10 years.  This is the kind of reason why.  It's not just a salary dump.  It looks like a salary dump with no earnest attempt to improve your team.  That's hard for fans to swallow.

As a taxpayer, I feel bamboozled....like some billionaire came along with promise, in order to get a stadium deal.  As soon as he has it -- BAM!  Bye bye, payroll.

[Brian Fein]

To be fair -
The stadium deal was in place LONG before he hired all those players.  The players were a shiny facade to make people come to the stadium.  In addition, YOU do not pay a penny of taxes for the stadium because you don't live in Miami-Dade county.

SI's Joe Sheehan tweeted this that sums up my opinion:
"The frustrating thing about the #Marlins trade is that evaluated on its own, it's not a bad baseball deal. It just sucks in every other way."

[MaineDolFan]

You said it yourself - the deal for the stadium was already done.

Here is the thing:  The wounds are too raw for me to talk any sense into any in that area.  I don't mean that to sound snide or flip.  I hear what you're saying.  Hear this, however:

New stadium would have been completed, either way.  So ownership could have taken two routes:

1:  The cheap route and people yell and scream.  "Where is the good product?"  No one comes to the games.
2:  Try to field a winner.  Put a name brand on the field.  It didn't work.

However, the owner is in a can't win position right now.  The "name brand" approach didn't work on the field, thus no one came to the games.  No one came to the games - he can't afford the name brands on the field.  It's simple mathematics.

Fire sales:  Yes, they have done this before.  However other ownership groups with the Marlins did this.  I would also like to remind all of you of something.  I have been preaching this for years:

Wayne Huizenga told you "I will put a winning team on the field.  I will spend every dollar I can to field a championship team.  If the fans do not come out and support the team, I ***HAVE TO DISBAND IT***."  I was on the freaking conference call with the guy when he said it.  It wasn't a huge surprise, or it shouldn't have been.  No one wanted a winner in Florida more than Huizenga, and the guy gave you one.

1997 the Marlins average 29,190 per game, although they were one of the best teams in baseball at 92-70.  They reached the playoffs in only their 5th year season, an MLB record.  The NLDS they averaged 42,000 per game, as they did in the NLCS.  It wasn't until the World Series they finally started nearing capacity at Pro Player Stadium.

The people in Southern Florida came out and really put their support behind this team for four games, really. 

One of the best teams in baseball ~ playoff birth, deep playoff run, WS title...and you can't average - AVERAGE - 30,000 per game.  The blame is on the owner, who told you what was going to happen if the team didn't get support?

Sorry, calling BS on that one.  Don't get me started on the attendance on the 2003 run, either.  People didn't come out and support that team, either.

Two World Series winners in your history, which dates back less than 30 years.  Yet, no matter what the team has done, the only real season the market has supported the team was the inaugural year...and that was just over 30,000. 

Am I missing something?  The "fan base" shares blame here.  Not just in Miami, but Tampa as well.

[Brian Fein]

To be fair, not all seat in Pro Player were "for sale" for those games.  The only time they ever sold the upper deck in the outfield was during the World Series.  I'd argue that, in baseball format, "capacity" was around 40,000 seats.  Besides, how many other MLB stadiums have a capacity near 80,000 seats?  I don't think anyone would expect to sell 80,000 tickets to a baseball game. 

Regardless, I don't see how attendance has anything to do with it.  They were averaging around 25000 sold last season.  Considering they year before (I'd guess the number was under 10k), that's a huge improvement.

They tried the name brand - it failed.  You give up after 1 year?  How many teams in any sport reboot after every season?  Did they expect to go from 72 wins to world champs in 1 season? 

I've backed up a bit from the ledge since last night, but I'm still a bit ticked off.  I still don't plan on supporting the team financially, and we'll see what happens.  But, in all, this whole thing has left a sour taste, and I'm not alone.  Most of south Florida is on my page here.

[Brian Fein]

This sounds like something I would have written about 9 PM last night, but its still a good read...

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/story/20972787/marlins-owner-rips-team-and-city-apart-with-despicable-trade-and-must-be-stopped

[bsfins]

I REALLY hate to piss on the Marlins fans (whomever is left now),but it's been rumored already that the Marlins are shopping Nolasco,and Logan Morrison...Umm there goes that "core" 
Several GMs expect #Marlins to trade Ricky Nolasco. Marlins also shopping Logan Morrison
Tweet from the palm beach post..

I feel bad for the Marlins fans...

[Brian Fein]

I heard that too.  I don't, for one second, believe that they are done giving away players.



Gary Sheffield: "I know a lot of players...they wouldn't dare touch the Marlins."

[MaineDolFan]

They tried the name brand - it failed.  You give up after 1 year?

Yes, especially after finishing with one of the worst records in the league (1) and almost 30 games out of the division league.  Nothing there to think the current roster was going to do anything different if kept together.

Attendance means everything, Brian.  A viable MLB franchise needs to average 30,000 per game to come close to 2,500,000 through the gates for the season.  This is generally considered the mark where teams need to be in order to stay above water.  Teams who aren't hitting this mark on living solely on TV revenue and revenue sharing, which isn't fair to the rest of the league.

[Brian Fein]

Does the owner care?  He's got a payroll at 16 million right now.  He's making a profit on revenue sharing alone.  Why should he bother?

I wonder how many MLB franchises are averaging 30k per night.  I expect the Yankees and Red Sox, but I watch games on TV and parks appear empty across the country.

[MaineDolFan]

Over half of the league averaged 30,000 per game.  If you factor in teams "close" to the mark (27,000 or higher) it was 20 teams or more, including your Marlins last season.

A few teams who did not hit the mark last year WILL this coming year:  Baltimore, Oakland, Toronto.  They were in the mid 20's and based on their performance last year (plus trades this season), they should see an increase at the gates.

So to answer your question, there are generally ten teams or less each year who do not perform to this level.  To Miami's credit, they were closing in on 30,000 this season ~ which clearly had more to do with the pull of the new stadium than the performance on the field.

Had that team been VIABLE on the field?  They EASILY would have gone past it.  27,000 per game and the one of the worst teams in baseball.  You do the math.

30,000 is not a magic number only pulled in by Boston and New York.  It's done by the majority of the league, not the minority.

[Dave Gray]

I am hearing on the radio that this is actually a sensible deal for the Marlins, but it's one that just sucks.  I don't really understand.

Can someone explain to me like I'm 5 how this is in the best interest of the franchise?

[Brian Fein]

^^ if you read Maine's post on the first page (the long one) it pretty much explains it well.

[MaineDolFan]

Some of the saved revenue has to immediately go back into baseball operations as well, however.  There is some really good, quality free agents out there.  There is no reason why Miami couldn't hover around .500 next season, with the right additions.

Think long and hard on that.  You just traded away your starting SS, closer, ace, #2, catcher...and I think you will improve by about 10-12 games next season.  I really do.  A couple things need to shake out your way, baseball is a funky, funky sport.  I think .500 is within reach for this core.

[JVides]

Maine, isn't there a value to Buehrle's ability to just eat up innings?  The guy is a reliable workhorse.  Not a star, perhaps, but valuable.

I won't necessarily miss Reyes.  I could forgive the power numbers if he were a defensive wizard (my favorite player of all time: Ozzie Smith) and was a consistent .300 hitter, but he's not.

Johnson could've been a #1 pitcher for years to come.  I will miss him.  Buehrle was steady and reliable.  Necessary for a good team.  The catcher?  He's a JAG (just another guy).

All that being said (written), I grew up a Cardinals fan and damn if I don't feel like the Marlins are just begging me to switch back...

[Brian Fein]

The guy that's being overlooked in this deal is the guy I'm going to miss the most.  Emilio Bonifacio, while not a star, is a valuable player.  Capable leadoff hitter, can be a league-leader in stolen bases, and can play 7 positions where needed.  Last season, he was injured for 4 weeks before he lost the league lead in stolen bases.  And he was the emotional leader of the team and a fan favorite.  I don't see how he won't be missed.