HEAT/Pacers Game 1

[el diablo]

Hibbert just got slapped with a $75,000 fine for making anti gay remarks at the post game press conference

At first, I thought it was a bit much. Until I realized that Kobe was fined $100k for actually calling someone a gay slur. Not just anyone. An actual ref.

[Dave Gray]

What exactly did Hibbert say?  Was it "no homo".  Because I see that said all the time and it's not an anti-gay remark in most contexts.  That seems excessive.

[Sunstroke]

Unless the term "homosexual" is going to become a "you can't say that" word, then how can an abbreviation of that word (homo) draw a fine?

Yeah, that definitely seems excessive.

[Dave Gray]

Let me be clear: I find homophobia to be disgusting and worthy of criticism and even fines.  But simply using those words isn't necessarily homophobia.  I'm very tolerant and supportive of gays, but I'll use the words "no homo".  "Hey man, I love your tie -- no homo."  It's like saying "Don't take this compliment as hitting on you, but your tie is dope."  To me, that's not a slur.  Even the word "gay" doesn't mean homosexual in many contexts.  "I can't go to the bar...my wife is making me stay home with the kids."  "Oh man, that's so gay".  That's not a homophobic slur, either.

I think that by over-legislating and being word police with little things, that it hurts the overall message.

[Spider-Dan]

This reminds me of a recent Twitter incident:

- Some male fan tweets "Let's make out in bed Kobe"
- Another user retweets it and adds "You're gay"
- Kobe follows up with "Just letting you know@PacSmoove @pookeo9 that using “your gay” as a way to put someone down ain’t ok!"
- blah blah media blah

But here's the thing... a male asking to make out with another male in bed is literally a homosexual act.  That wasn't a put down, unless you consider being gay a put down.

[Spider-Dan]

Let me be clear: I find homophobia to be disgusting and worthy of criticism and even fines.  But simply using those words isn't necessarily homophobia.  I'm very tolerant and supportive of gays, but I'll use the words "no homo".  "Hey man, I love your tie -- no homo."  It's like saying "Don't take this compliment as hitting on you, but your tie is dope."  To me, that's not a slur.

Agreed.

Even the word "gay" doesn't mean homosexual in many contexts.  "I can't go to the bar...my wife is making me stay home with the kids."  "Oh man, that's so gay".  That's not a homophobic slur, either.

Um, yes it is.  Replace "gay" with "Jewish" and it should be pretty clear.

You are using the term "gay" as a substitute for something bad, which is intrinsically anti-gay.  It's like if your buddy won't share his popcorn with you and you say, "Don't be such a fag."  You aren't actually accusing him of being homosexual, but you are using homosexuality as a substitute for a negative.

[Cathal]

Unless the term "homosexual" is going to become a "you can't say that" word, then how can an abbreviation of that word (homo) draw a fine?

Yeah, that definitely seems excessive.

Probably along the lines of you can say Japanese but you can't say Jap, since Jap would be considered a tad bit racist.

[Sunstroke]

I use terms like "Jap bike" and "Jap food" all the time, and no one has ever looked sideways for using those terms.

I just don't see anything racist in it at all... I'm not putting something down by using that term, just a one syllable time-saving replacement for "Japanese."

[Dave Gray]

You are using the term "gay" as a substitute for something bad, which is intrinsically anti-gay.  It's like if your buddy won't share his popcorn with you and you say, "Don't be such a fag."  You aren't actually accusing him of being homosexual, but you are using homosexuality as a substitute for a negative.

I disagree with this, but I understand where you are coming from.  Language changes and evolves.  Even if the word gay has formed a 2nd meaning which means "lame", it's not a knock on homosexuals.  I can call a friend a dick.  It doesn't mean that I have anything against penises.  Words change meaning over time.

[Phishfan]

I disagree with this, but I understand where you are coming from.  Language changes and evolves.  Even if the word gay has formed a 2nd meaning which means "lame", it's not a knock on homosexuals.  I can call a friend a dick.  It doesn't mean that I have anything against penises.  Words change meaning over time.

Gay being a perfect example as homosexual was not the first usage of the word but has developed into it now.

[Spider-Dan]

I disagree with this, but I understand where you are coming from.  Language changes and evolves.  Even if the word gay has formed a 2nd meaning which means "lame", it's not a knock on homosexuals.  I can call a friend a dick.  It doesn't mean that I have anything against penises.  Words change meaning over time.

It's not really any different than arguing for the practical utility of "colored" or "oriental."  At the end of the day, if polite society determines that "gay" as a synonym for "bad" is not PC, then it is what it is.

I still think that's a different thing than "no homo," though.

[Dave Gray]

It's not really any different than arguing for the practical utility of "colored" or "oriental."  At the end of the day, if polite society determines that "gay" as a synonym for "bad" is not PC, then it is what it is.

I still think that's a different thing than "no homo," though.

I agree in large part that society as a whole has to determine what's PC.  But in my estimation considering that I work with, have close friends that are, and have nuclear family that is gay, I don't think any of them would be offended if someone said "that is so gay" in relation to something non-sexuality related.

Though a different word, the word "nigga/n*****" is used differently that it once was.  I'm not saying that we should freely be calling each other "n*****", but "what up, nigga?" is not used to describe race in many contexts and isn't an offensive term to many, when used that way.

All I'm saying is that language evolves and we may very well me amidst that evolution.

[Phishfan]

and have nuclear family that is gay,

I'm curious if you used this term correctly. I'd never gotten this impression by the way you speak of your family.

[Dave Gray]

^ I think I'm using it correctly.  My brother is gay.

[Phishfan]

^^^ OK. The wording made me think one of your parents. Yes that is part of the nuclear family, but I just shot to a different direction when you said "nuclear family that is gay" rather than a member of you nuclear family.