HEAT/Pacers Game 1

[Sunstroke]

A team being upset with the league and screwing them out of broadcast money is not one of those reasons. 

Not sure how you came to the conclusion that this resting maneuver actually screwed the league out of broadcast revenue, because I'm pretty sure that it did no such thing. At least I couldn't find any report that NBC withheld any money owed to the league as part of the existing broadcast agreement, or fined the league and forced them to give money back, as a result of the Spurs' actions in this game. Could it have an affect on future broadcast deal negotiations? Possibly, but if it does, it would have to be so minor as to be considered inconsequential.

[Spider-Dan]

I hear what you're saying, but do you really think the NBA's response would have been different if he brought Duncan-Parker-Ginobli-Green to the arena, and then had them sit on the bench, healthy, in 3-piece suits?

In a word: yes.

It was the fact that they didn't even make the trip that was the unusual part.  If they make the trip, then Stern has plausible deniability when Pop says that his players were fatigued and needed the rest.  But when they don't even get on the plane, it's not a gameday decision; you're deciding ahead of time that they won't play.

[Phishfan]

These things don't happen in a vacuum.  It's not that guys didn't play.  It's that Pop did this as punishment to the NBA for how they scheduled him and he hit them in the pocketbook as a "fuck you".  There is something called "full faith and credit" in the ticket.  There's a reasonable expectation that these players will play, except for reasons X,Y, and Z.  Injury, rest, strategy, etc. -- these have been deemed acceptable by both owners and fans.  A team being upset with the league and screwing them out of broadcast money is not one of those reasons.  Because the Spurs made no attempt to veil this as one of those other things, they wanted the NBA to know why this was happening.  And the NBA did and responded.  It's Stern's job to protect the fans.

Where the hell did you get that from? The story was he was resting players. Pop had no fuck you comments. Also, how do you think they lost broadcast money? The league had games on and sold those ad spots way in advance. They didn't make those arrangements the week of the game I guarantee.

[Sunstroke]

In a word: yes.

It was the fact that they didn't even make the trip that was the unusual part.  If they make the trip, then Stern has plausible deniability when Pop says that his players were fatigued and needed the rest.  But when they don't even get on the plane, it's not a gameday decision; you're deciding ahead of time that they won't play.

Just my opinion, but I'd give you a C-minus in "Ability to accurately see things from David Stern's perspective."

(btw...I specifically prefaced that observation/kind-hearted zinger with "Just my opinion" in the earnest hope of avoiding a Spidey-caliber filibuster. Thank you for your consideration.)

Regardless of whether the players didn't come to Miami, or came and sat on the bench in their suits, I think this whole thing would have been a non-issue had San Antonio simply "notified the league of its intentions in a timely fashion." Every report I can find about the NBA's response to that situation always comes down to the league being pissed that they had no clue what was coming down the pipes.

In an alternate perfect-hindsight universe, GM Buford pens the following letter to the league office a week before the Heat-Spurs game:

"Commissioner Stern,

I just wanted to drop you a quick memo to serve as a heads-up for our team's plans. On November 29th, our team is scheduled to play the Miami Heat. In the best interests of our team, we will be resting a number of our primary players, including, but not limited to, Tim Duncan, Tony Parker and Manu Ginobli.  All three of those players listed are extremely old, and two of the three are a little nicked up from recent injuries. After the brutal schedule we've had in the past two weeks, we feel resting these players at this time would be helpful in maintaining their health for the duration of the season. We're providing notification a week ahead of the scheduled nationally-televised contest so that the league, at its discretion, could determine whether or not to use this game for their national telecast, or another of the match-ups on that day's schedule.

We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience this causes the league, but Coach Popovich, Tim Duncan and everyone involved with the Spurs organization is focused on our goal of winning a 5th championship, and we feel that our decision to rest these players at this time best serves that goal.

Sincerely,

R.C. Buford,
General Manager, San Antonio Spurs

P.S. I saw your great suntan during the press conference yesterday. In the words of Billy Crystal...You look marvelous!  (insert smiley face)

[Spider-Dan]

Regardless of whether the players didn't come to Miami, or came and sat on the bench in their suits, I think this whole thing would have been a non-issue had San Antonio simply "notified the league of its intentions in a timely fashion." Every report I can find about the NBA's response to that situation always comes down to the league being pissed that they had no clue what was coming down the pipes.

Popovich obviously cannot notify the league a week in advance that his players are going to sit on the bench fatigued; that's like scheduling a sick day.  But he can notify the league of his intentions to fly players home for extra rest.

Let me flip your question around on you:  do you think Stern would have been perfectly happy if the players showed up in warmup suits and then sat on the bench for the whole game?

[Fau Teixeira]

1 - DNP - CD is different than flying them home before the game starts
2 - the reason the heat got all the calls yesterday is because they stopped being passive and attacked the rim at every opportunity. They weren't settling for jumpers, they attacked attacked attacked . .and the pacers fouled alot.
3 - kawai leonard will get curb-stomped by lebron in this series. I think the worst thing that can happen to the spurs happened, miami just finished beating 2 teams that are tougher, bigger and play harder than the spurs and are in rhythm.
4 - noah / boozer and hibbert / west are both both larger, more athletic, harder to defend, and more scrappy than duncan/splitter - duncan is an older crafty chris bosh at this point and splitter is an older taller udonis haslem.. we'll see how these matchups work out. The only position that they have the heat beat out decicively is at point guard, and even there the chalmers / cole 2 headed PG of the heat hasn't been playing poorly at all.

It's possible the heat loses to the spurs. crazier things have happened in the NBA. but i know 3 things for certain. Kawai Leonard isn't a scotty pippen / bruce bowen love child made in the future to stop lebron, spoelstra won't get out-coached by popovich (guaranteed) .. and wade and bosh wont' have nearly as much trouble against the spurs as they did against the pacers.

[Sunstroke]

1) Popovich obviously cannot notify the league a week in advance that his players are going to sit on the bench fatigued; that's like scheduling a sick day.

2) Let me flip your question around on you:  do you think Stern would have been perfectly happy if the players showed up in warmup suits and then sat on the bench for the whole game?

1) This is one of those times whether I wonder if you actually believe what you're typing, or just looking to keep a conversation going. For obvious reasons, planning a sick day is a completely different situation than planning a recuperative rest day when you're in the middle of a tough stretch of your schedule, know what your upcoming schedule looks like, and have full knowledge on the extent of the past injuries of the older players involved.

2) No interest in Stern's happiness, just his likelihood of fining San Antonio. I think if San Antonio had notified the league a week before, they would have had plenty of time to switch their telecast to a different game, if that was what Stern felt was in the best interest of the league. Again...my position is that it was the lack of notification, rather than the act of resting players en masse, that drew the league's ire.

On that note, I have fully exhausted my interest in debating the particulars in the madcap case of Spurs v. Stern. Deliver any closing arguments you may have and let's move along to the next case on the docket.

[Dave Gray]

^ There was no other game.  It was the only game on in the NBA that night.

[Sunstroke]

There was another matchup that day with two playoff teams involved, Denver vs Golden State. It was the second part of that day's doubleheader though, so useless for a reschedule filler. Still, with a week's notice (maybe even a week and a half), I imagine the league could have bounced a game back a day or forward a day. Without digging too deeply, there were 11 games the day before and 11 games the day after. Surely, "if they felt they had to," I'm certain they could have done something.

And again, if they couldn't, it doesn't matter to my position. If San Antonio had given notice, there would have been no fine. Whether it was logistically feasible to reschedule around it or not.

[Dave Gray]

The NBA lost money because they were expecting huge ratings and got a ratings turd.  (Or at least that was the idea.)  That hurts their ability to demand big money for TV deals.  It wasn't a 1:1 loss, but that was the principle of the decision.

[Sunstroke]

^^^ Distinctly possible...and I noted the possible loss of position for future broadcast deal negotiations in my first post on the topic. I still think it's not significant enough for Stern to go all "sky is falling" and make a huge public stink about. Especially if - wait for it - they had gotten advance notification of the Spurs' plans.

[Phishfan]

The NBA lost money because they were expecting huge ratings and got a ratings turd.  (Or at least that was the idea.)  That hurts their ability to demand big money for TV deals.  It wasn't a 1:1 loss, but that was the principle of the decision.

That is a turd of an argument and I can't believe anyone would take it seriously. Advertising during sports is continually going up and up. By the time there is a new negotiation no one will even remember November 29, 2012.

[Spider-Dan]

For obvious reasons, planning a sick day is a completely different situation than planning a recuperative rest day when you're in the middle of a tough stretch of your schedule, know what your upcoming schedule looks like, and have full knowledge on the extent of the past injuries of the older players involved.

That's the point.  Popovich knew all of those things months in advance, could have booked the flights back to SA months in advance, and waited until the last minute to inform the league.

As Fau said, there's a world of difference between DNP-CD (regardless of which clothes you are wearing on the sideline) and putting your players on an early plane home.  Putting uninjured players on a plane home means you aren't making a gametime decision on them, and that indicates you had an extra degree of planning in the matter.

You don't seem to object to the idea that having them sit on the sidelines in warmup suits (with no change in notification timing) would not have resulted in a fine.  So do you think the line is crossed at sideline in street clothes?  If not, then you aren't really disputing my point: it's the plane ride that caused the problem.

[Sunstroke]

If not, then you aren't really disputing my point: it's the plane ride that caused the problem.

Setting a new personal record for the most times I've expressed a single point in one day...

"It was the lack of notification that caused the problem."

[/end message]

[Spider-Dan]

And as I've said repeatedly, the act of holding the players out of the game with limited advance notification would have been no issue whatsoever if the players were on the sidelines in warmup suits.