Shutdown watch

[CF DolFan]

I don't know about that CF. Vets are upset they cannot visit monuments, no new applications for Social Security, no new applications for passports, delays in pay to the military and FAA, etc. I think the longer this goes on the public is going to become outraged.

The House unanimously passed a bill early Sunday morning. The bill would ensure that active-duty military -- as well as some civilians and Defense contractors -- get paid even though there is a shutdown. The Senate approved the bill late Monday afternoon and President Obama signed it into law a few hours later.

I've read a few things on it from both sides but felt this kind of broke it down the best. It's not perfect but does shed some light.

Michael Snyder
Economic Collapse
October 3, 2013
All of this whining and crying about a “government shutdown” is a total joke.  You see, there really is very little reason why this “government shutdown” cannot continue indefinitely because almost everything is still running.  63 percent of all federal workers are still working, and 85 percent of all government activities are still being funded during this “shutdown”.  Yes, the Obama administration has been making a big show of taking down government websites and blocking off the World War II Memorial, but overall business in Washington D.C. is being conducted pretty much as usual.

It turns out that the definition of “essential personnel” has expanded so much over the years that almost everyone is considered “essential” at this point.  In fact, this shutdown is such a non-event that even referring to it as a “partial government shutdown” would really be overstating what is actually happening.  The following are 36 facts which prove that almost everything is still running during this government shutdown…

#1 According to U.S. Senator Rand Paul, 85 percent of all government activities are actually being funded during this “government shutdown”.
#2 Approximately 1,350,000 ”essential” federal employees will continue to work during this “government shutdown”.
#3 Overall, 63 percent of the federal workforce will continue to work during this “government shutdown”.
#4 The U.S. Postal Service will continue to deliver our mail.
#5 U.S. military personnel will remain on duty and will continue to get paid.
#6 Social Security recipients will continue to get their benefits.
#7 Medicare recipients will continue to get their benefits.
#8 Medicaid recipients will continue to get their benefits.
#9 Food stamp recipients will continue to get their benefits.
#10 Those on unemployment will continue to get their benefits.
#11 Federal retirees will continue to get their pensions.
#12 The federal school lunch program has enough money to go through at least the end of this month.
#13 Public schools all over the country will continue to stay open.
#14 Almost all federal law enforcement officials will continue working.
#15 The Federal Reserve will remain “completely functional“.
#16 The Supreme Court will continue to operate normally and federal courts have enough money to keep going for at least two weeks.
#17 TSA employees will continue to molest travelers at our airports.
#18 Air traffic controllers will continue to monitor traffic at our airports.
#19 Hopelessly outmanned border patrol agents will continue to try to stem the tide of illegal immigration.
#20 Visas and passports will continue to be issued by the State Department.
#21 The Veterans Administration will continue to offer substandard medical services, and it will be able to continue processing benefit payments at least for now.
#22 The Obama administration apparently has plenty of money to spend on closing open-air memorials that are usually open to the public 24 hours a day.
#23 The Department of Defense announced the awarding of 94 new contracts worth a combined total of more than 5 billion dollars on September 30th – the day right before the “government shutdown”.
#24 The “government shutdown” has not prevented the new two billion dollar NSA spy center from opening up.
#25 Federal prisons will continue to operate normally.
#26 Amtrak trains will continue to run.
#27 The Patent and Trademark Office will be open.
#28 The Consumer Product Safety Commission will continue to issue product recalls if the products “create an immediate threat to the safety of human life“.
#29 The National Weather Service and the National Hurricane Centerwill continue to track weather patterns.
#30 If the federal government needs to respond to a natural disaster, this “shutdown” will not affect that.
#31 NASA will continue to support the Mars Rover and the two American astronauts up on the International Space Station.
#32 All city employees of the D.C. government have been deemed “essential” and will continue to go to work.
#33 Even though the Obamacare exchanges are not working properly, people will still be able to access them.
#34 The IRS will continue to collect taxes, but it will be suspending punitive audits of conservative organizations.
#35 Barack Obama will continue to get paid for the full duration of this “shutdown”.
#36 The U.S. Congress will continue to get paid for the full duration of this “shutdown”.
Of course not everything is operating normally during this government shutdown.  Government parks are closed.  The EPA and the Department of Energy have almost totally closed up shop.  But overall, most Americans are not going to notice much of a difference.
And perhaps now is a good time for the American people to evaluate whether or not they actually need a gigantic federal government that wastes enormous mountains of our money.

[pondwater]

Please explain the following:

1) How is delaying the employer mandate but not the individual mandate "fooling the American people until after the midterm election," when individuals can vote in said election and corporations cannot?

Because the employer mandate is where America is going to feel the pain and King Obama knows it. Not to mention that the very plans that the employer mandate is supposed to make available won't be available to the employees. If anything the individual mandate should have been delayed instead of the employer mandate. Stupid shit makes no sense whatsoever.

2) If the purpose of delaying mandates is to deceive others into believing the law is good, why are the Republicans the ones insisting on delaying the individual mandate?

Because it makes no sense to delay one without delaying both.

No one has yet given a good reason that Obama delayed the employer mandate until after the midterms, but deep down we all really know why. Furthermore, I could be wrong, but I thought that under the U.S. Constitution, the law can only be changed by legislation passed by Congress and signed by the president.

Ladies and gentlemen, the 2013 Republican Party.
To rational, reasonable Americans, the shutdown has EVERYTHING to do with the continuing resolution.  But conservatives see a functioning government as merely a bargaining chip, just as they do with a functioning world economy.

You obviously don't know how negotiations work.

[Dave Gray]

The time for negotiations is over -- and the GOP lost out and the Dems got their bill.  The GOP fought it at every turn, from the ballot box, to the Supreme Court.  They lost.  The way to correct that assumed wrong is legislatively.  Besides, "give us everything we want or we shut down the government" isn't a negotiation.

The Dems don't have to negotiate.  They already got their way and this is sour grapes. 

The best part is, politically speaking, that the far right overplayed their hand.  They got their worst nightmare -- what they threatened.  Now they get blamed for the shutdown while Obamacare lives on.

[pondwater]

The House unanimously passed a bill early Sunday morning. The bill would ensure that active-duty military -- as well as some civilians and Defense contractors -- get paid even though there is a shutdown. The Senate approved the bill late Monday afternoon and President Obama signed it into law a few hours later.

I've read a few things on it from both sides but felt this kind of broke it down the best. It's not perfect but does shed some light.

You can't be saying that Obama is making a disaster out of something that really doesn't amount to much. Kind of like he did with his brainchild of sequestration that no one really even noticed. Just more fear mongering by the left, meanwhile life goes on as normal. Good informative post CF. Now wait for it, wait for it. SPIN TIME.

[pondwater]

The time for negotiations is over -- and the GOP lost out and the Dems got their bill.  The GOP fought it at every turn, from the ballot box, to the Supreme Court.  They lost.  The way to correct that assumed wrong is legislatively.  Besides, "give us everything we want or we shut down the government" isn't a negotiation.

Time for negotiations is never over in politics. But you are correct the left got their bill. So let me repeat my self again. Why can no one give a good reason that Obama delayed the employer mandate until after the midterms? Furthermore, I could be wrong, but I thought that under the U.S. Constitution, the law can only be changed by legislation passed by Congress and signed by the president.

The Dems don't have to negotiate.  They already got their way and this is sour grapes. 

So the democrats don't have to negotiate? Do you realize that their job is to negotiate don't you? It was just as much their responsibility to avert the shutdown as it was the gop. Therefore they are at least equally responsible. However, by not negotiating, they automatically assume responsible for the shutdown by not doing their jobs. When negotiating, you always first ask for everything you want plus some, just as the gop did. The democrats not only rejected the offer, they didn't even care enough to make a counter offer in order to prevent the shutdown.

The best part is, politically speaking, that the far right overplayed their hand.  They got their worst nightmare -- what they threatened.  Now they get blamed for the shutdown while Obamacare lives on.

Boo fucking hoo, the right got blamed for sequestration which was originally King Barack's stupid idea to begin with. They get blamed for everything anyhow, so it doesn't really matter. We all know the fairy tale about how Obama and the democrats are perfect. Regardless, the current president will go down as the worst in the history of this country.

[Spider-Dan]

[re: why the GOP is asking for Obamacare delays]

Because it makes no sense to delay one without delaying both.

This does not answer the question at all.

You claim that delaying the implementation of mandates is a trick designed to "fool the American people" by making Obamacare seem better than it is.  So why does the GOP want to delay implementation of the individual mandate?  Because they want it to look good?  Because they don't want the additional deficit reduction from the collection of fines?

Or is it simply because whatever Obama wants, Republicans automatically want the opposite?

No one has yet given a good reason that Obama delayed the employer mandate until after the midterms, but deep down we all really know why.

I would love to see you explain why and reconcile that claim with the GOP's desire to delay the individual mandate.

Furthermore, I could be wrong, but I thought that under the U.S. Constitution, the law can only be changed by legislation passed by Congress and signed by the president.

Then I guess it's a good thing Obama didn't change any law.

Under the Constitution, the executive branch is charged with enforcing the law.  Obama has elected not to enforce that provision (using executive discretion exercised by many Presidents before him).  It is perfectly within the law for Republican members of Congress to take appropriate steps to try to make him enforce that provision immediately (and since they reflexively want the opposite of whatever Obama wants, this shouldn't be hard).  But trying to make Obama enforce an unpopular provision they don't like is just a little too much hypocrisy, even for the Tea Party.

You obviously don't know how negotiations work.

The time for negotiations is over -- and the GOP lost out and the Dems got their bill.

What Dave said.

The time for negotiation was when the bill was going through Congress.  The GOP's idea of negotiation at the time was:

- no
- no
- demand concession
- no
- demand concession
- no
- no
- insert poison pill
- no

Negotiation is over.  The bill passed.  The Supreme Court affirmed it, and the electorate validated it by re-electing Obama (who campaigned on it) over Romney (who campaigned on repealing it).  Your side lost.

[pondwater]

I would love to see you explain why and reconcile that claim with the GOP's desire to delay the individual mandate.
Then I guess it's a good thing Obama didn't change any law.

Under the Constitution, the executive branch is charged with enforcing the law.  Obama has elected not to enforce that provision (using executive discretion exercised by many Presidents before him).

If that's the case. Why is Obama not enforcing parts of "the law" that he and his cronies wanted? Is it that bad? The democrats are the champions of the poor and working class and slayers of the big evil greedy corporations. So are you telling me that they are giving the big greedy corporations an exemption from "the law" that he wanted and the fines associated with it? And at the same time sticking it to the working class by enforcing "the law" and fining taxing them after promising America that no one making under $250k a year would see any tax increase.

BUCK OFAMA

[Dave Gray]

^ I'm not avoiding your question, but I don't know the intentions of why certain parts are being implemented at later times.

Perhaps the bill is more palatable when rolled out in sections, so as not to cause too much stir with so many changes at once.

Or perhaps it plays better politically -- that the individual mandate will be popular and liked, but the employee mandate will be less so -- so they roll out the individual one first to get people liking the bill, getting people in the system and making it harder for the GOP to undo later.

I really can't speak to the intentions.

[Spider-Dan]

Why is Obama not enforcing parts of "the law" that he and his cronies wanted?

Direct quote from the Treasury department: “We have heard concerns about the complexity of the requirements and the need for more time to implement them effectively.”

Now, maybe the rest of the supporting infrastructure hasn't rolled out as quickly as was originally thought.  Maybe the Obama Administration underestimated the vigor of GOP governors' attempts to sabotage the law.  Either way, they have chosen to delay enforcement of that particular provision (and enforcement of laws is clearly within the purview of the executive).  If the legislative branch objects, they have methods for redress.

So now that I've answered your question, you can answer mine: if a delay in the mandate is only a tool to deceive the electorate and make Obamacare look better than it is, why is the GOP attempting to delay implementation of the individual mandate?

[Spider-Dan]

I saw a tweet which I think perfectly captures the Republican position on Obamacare and the shutdown:

"Can I burn down your house?"
"No"
"Just the 2nd floor?"
"No"
"Garage?"
"No"
"Let's talk about what I can burn down."
"No"
"YOU AREN'T COMPROMISING!"

It's not "negotiating" when you're only discussing how much one side will give up.  When the GOP says that they would like the Democrats to 100% fold on Obamacare, but they might accept a 50% fold or 30% fold (FOR NOW), and in "exchange" they will give up nothing that they want, that is not "negotiation."

If I want you to just give me $20 and you agree to just give me $10, that is not a mutual compromise.

[Sunstroke]

"Can I burn down your house?"
"No"
"Just the 2nd floor?"
"No"
"Garage?"
"No"
"Let's talk about what I can burn down."
"No"
"YOU AREN'T COMPROMISING!"

The truth is usually funnier than fiction...props to Judd Legum for a hilariously scary truth.

[masterfins]

If Republicans put half as much energy into introducing SOME reforms to Obamacare (to correct the bad parts), as they do just continually voting to repeal it, THEN they would have a large majority of the country behind them.  It's sad when the majority of the people complaining about Obamacare already have insurance; in essence they are saying FU to the 40 million Americans without insurance.

[Dave Gray]

If I want you to just give me $20 and you agree to just give me $10, that is not a mutual compromise.

This is going to be seen as a joke, but it's actually very accurate.

It's not compromise if only one side is giving something up.

See, this is how it works.  The Dems already HAVE the bill they want.  It's already law.  It's already been negotiated, passed, and tried in court. 

The GOP doesn't want that bill, so they're insisting that the Dems give up parts of it or delay it.  But the Dems aren't asking for anything in return, nor is the GOP giving up anything in return.  That's just not what compromise is -- it's not compromise to just make demands that someone else give up something they already have and when they don't give up PART of it, you cry foul that they're not compromising.

[pondwater]

This is going to be seen as a joke, but it's actually very accurate.

It's not compromise if only one side is giving something up.

See, this is how it works.  The Dems already HAVE the bill they want.  It's already law.  It's already been negotiated, passed, and tried in court. 

The GOP doesn't want that bill, so they're insisting that the Dems give up parts of it or delay it.  But the Dems aren't asking for anything in return, nor is the GOP giving up anything in return.  That's just not what compromise is -- it's not compromise to just make demands that someone else give up something they already have and when they don't give up PART of it, you cry foul that they're not compromising.

While the majority of people in the  real world continues like nothing has even happened. Obama and the left are still perpetuating the shut down as a nationwide disaster. Multiple reports from federal employees being instructed to " to make life as difficult for people as we can". Closing an open air, unfenced war memorial that people just walk up to and walk away from when done. Hell, it probably cost more to close it than keep it accessible to the public. Now they want to close the ocean. I think these 2 articles sum it up perfectly.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/10/05/Feds-Try-to-Close-the-OCEAN-Because-of-Shutdown

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/360429/shutdown-simulacrum-mark-steyn

This from the article say it all.

Other countries are actually reducing debt: New Zealand, for example, has a real budget that diminishes net debt from 26 percent of GDP to 17 percent by 2020. By comparison, America’s net debt is currently about 88 percent, and we’re debating only whether to increase it automatically or with a few ineffectual strings attached.

This president and his administration are a fucking joke of the highest order.

[Spider-Dan]

While the majority of people in the  real world continues like nothing has even happened. Obama and the left are still perpetuating the shut down as a nationwide disaster. Multiple reports from federal employees being instructed to " to make life as difficult for people as we can". Closing an open air, unfenced war memorial that people just walk up to and walk away from when done. Hell, it probably cost more to close it than keep it accessible to the public.

Contrary to what conservatives seem to have thought, "government shutdown" doesn't mean "you can go into a national park and do whatever you want because the park rangers are all gone."

It goes without saying that conservatives don't care at all about the poor or unemployed who are severely impacted by the shutdown, but given that they always love to pay lip-service to the military, the fact that non-active-duty military will not receive their checks should ostensibly qualify as "something happening."

The GOP makes a big show about veterans being able to walk into a memorial, but has no problem with other disabled veterans going hungry or without utilities because they have not received their disability checks.

Personally, I hope Republicans (and the right in general) continue to beat this "shutdown?  what's the big deal?" drum.  Maybe this will finally get it through the head of poor white Republicans (who rely on government services) that the Republican Party does not care about their needs, and considers them easily manipulated rubes who will be happy to vote against their own economic interest as soon as someone mentions god/guns/gays.