Pouncey: Players don't think Incognito is racist

[CF DolFan]

This maybe could have gone under the players supporting Incognito thread but I didn't want to see it get buried. Most people have been waiting for Pouncey to speak since he was not only a teammate and leader, but the person who spent the most time with the two of them.  I don't think many of you will "get it" due to your lawyering but it does give you the perspective of how players and the league see things. Regardless of who is "OMGing" on TV there is a different culture for these Alpha males that exists in the testosterone world.  In fact, Pouncey said "Dolphins players don’t feel Incognito isn't getting a “fair defense” in this situation."



By Chris Perkins
11:49 a.m. EST, November 6, 2013

 DAVIE – Dolphins center Mike Pouncey spoke to ESPN’s Cris Carter, the Hall of Fame wide receiver, on Wednesday, off camera, regarding the Dolphins’ situation between guard Richie Incognito and tackle Jonathan Martin.

 According to Carter, Pouncey said Martin, at times, wondered whether he was “cut out” to play in the NFL.

 Carter said Pouncey told him no players consider Incognito a racist. He said Pouncey and the team’s six-member Leadership Council didn’t know about Incognito’s alleged voicemail for Martin prior to it being made public recently.


 Hear what Carter said Pouncey told him as far as the players' feelings toward Incognito:

 "They don't feel as if he's a racist, they don't feel as if he picked on Jonathan repeatedly and bullied him, but if they could do it all over again there would be situations that they might change but they’re very, very comfortable with Richie,” Carter said.


 “They think it’s sad, not only that Jonathan’s not on the football team, but also that Richie is being depicted as a bigot and as a racist.”

 Carter, who said he’s known Pouncey since Pouncey was 15 years old, said Dolphins players don’t feel Incognito isn't getting a “fair defense” in this situation.

 “That’s what hurts them the most,” Carter said.

 Regarding the voicemail, Carter explained there’s a culture, pop culture and athletic culture, in which the “n-word,” in certain contexts, is acceptable. So Pouncey didn’t find it racist or consider it bullying when he recently found out about the voicemail Incognito allegedly left for Martin using the "n-word."

 “He said he thought it was bad,” Carter said, “but he thought he was just trying to spur Jonathan on to have a good off-season, and he wishes the words would have been different, though.”

 Carter said Pouncey told him there were times Martin struggled as a rookie last season and during this past off-season when Martin wondered “Am I cut out for this? Can I do this job?”

 Carter said Pouncey also told him he wasn’t asked by any coaches to “toughen up” Martin. A  Sun Sentinel exclusive said Incognito was asked by coaches to “toughen up” Martin after Martin missed a voluntary workout during the spring, and Incognito might have taken those orders too far.

Copyright © 2013, South Florida Sun-Sentinel

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-dolphins/sfl-pouncey-its-sad-incognito-is-being-depicted-as-a-racist-20131106,0,3589047.story

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

To summarize:

According to Pouncey: Richie Incognito and Aaron Hernandez are two wonderful loving and caring people who would never hurt anyone. 

[Phishfan]

^^^ And that Martin also doubted his own abilities in the NFL (I'm taking that to mean mentally rather than physically).

[Brian Fein]

Insertion of one word into a voice mail doesn't make someone racist.  We, the public, have ZERO insight into how people talk to each other behind closed doors.  This was a personal, closed-door conversation between two co-workers. 

I hate how it is being blown up into a race issue.  There is so much more complexity to this issue that one word in a voice mail is making it a racist issue.  Its just not.

[CF DolFan]

Insertion of one word into a voice mail doesn't make someone racist.  We, the public, have ZERO insight into how people talk to each other behind closed doors.  This was a personal, closed-door conversation between two co-workers. 

I hate how it is being blown up into a race issue.  There is so much more complexity to this issue that one word in a voice mail is making it a racist issue.  Its just not.

A black guy called in to the radio this morning and said the same thing. Said many people need history lessons because we've become so privy that we think every time someone bumps into a black person it's because they are racist.

[Dave Gray]

I don't think that Incognito is a racist because he used the n-word.  That was never my position.  But it is my position that Incognito used that word inappropriately (solely based on the way it was perceived by Martin) and the team must react accordingly.  You can't be using the n-word to your co-workers if they aren't cool with it.  It doesn't matter if they "should" be cool with it. 

[CF DolFan]

^^^^ If he's used that word with him numerous times and Martin has called him redneck, cracker .. or whatever in general conversation .... does that change anything in your eyes? Because that's exactly how I see this. Many of those guys use what would seem racial terms to talk to their "family" as Ricky put it.

From what I know or understand is that Martin never has any issues giving or taking until the flight home from New England. Maybe not giving as much but he did give.

[Brian Fein]

I don't think that Incognito is a racist because he used the n-word.  That was never my position.  But it is my position that Incognito used that word inappropriately (solely based on the way it was perceived by Martin) and the team must react accordingly.  You can't be using the n-word to your co-workers if they aren't cool with it.  It doesn't matter if they "should" be cool with it. 

How do you know how it was perceived by Martin?  Martin has yet to say a word about anything.  People are all appalled on his behalf.

[Spider-Dan]

Brian, you're being pretty silly with these "but how do you know that?" points.  No one here was born yesterday and we can all connect the extremely simple and straightforward dots.  The voicemails came from Martin.  He's the one who saved them and released them.  What does that tell you about his perception of their content?

I can tell you with a good deal of certainty that even if Martin was potentially OK with Incognito saying n*****, he's not OK with being called a half-n*****.  That is (generally) not how black people use that word; that's how racists use it.

(cue furious Google search for a black person using that phrase at some point in recorded history)

[Pappy13]

To summarize:

According to Pouncey: Richie Incognito and Aaron Hernandez are two wonderful loving and caring people who would never hurt anyone. 

This was a cheap shot. Very uncharacteristic for you Hoodie. Seems like some people here are rubbing off on you.

[Dave Gray]

How do you know how it was perceived by Martin?  Martin has yet to say a word about anything.  People are all appalled on his behalf.

I am making the reasonable assumption that because Martin saved this voicemail since April and used it as evidence in a formal complaint against Incognito, that he objected to its content.  Am I going too far?

[EKnight]

Curious if Cognito meant it as a term of endearment when he called Warren Sapp the same thing in a game and kicked him? -EK

[Brian Fein]

I am making the reasonable assumption that because Martin saved this voicemail since April and used it as evidence in a formal complaint against Incognito, that he objected to its content.  Am I going too far?

I'm making an assumption here, but I have voicemails on my phone from 3 years ago.  I don't typically check my voicemails.  Just like I have 568 messages in my TDMMC PM inbox. 

To my knowledge the voicemail transcript was released by Martin's agent, who's interest is to protect his client from looking like an idiot.  Not saying anything about the content, and not defending Incognito, but I want to hear from Martin directly before assuming HE was deeply hurt and offended, just because the media wants US to be offended.

[Dave Gray]

^ I think you're reaching.

But we've both made our points.

[Phishfan]

Curious if Cognito meant it as a term of endearment when he called Warren Sapp the same thing in a game and kicked him? -EK

Endearment is not the opposite of racial. I've seen the team used racially, as endearment, and by people who just use the word as a way to refer to someone. I've seen black people preparing to fight a white guy say it.