Four days later and Jim Turner still has a job

[Brian Fein]

Did you even read the report?  The second paragraph of the report states:

"...three starters of the offensive line...engaged in a pattern of harassment directed, not only at Martin, but also another young Dolphins offensive lineman..."

The report builds on this.  I challenge them to the notion of "did they even consider for a moment that, perhaps what happened in this case wasn't atypical locker room behavior?"  From my review of the document, the answer is resoundingly "no."

I don't condone what these guys did, but that doesn't mean it isn't typical locker room/teammate/friend behavior.  It doesn't mean that Richie and friends were deliberately being mean.  The report makes no comment about the intent of the offending players.  If anything, it immediately discounts any counter evidence as false.  Why wasn't it addressed that Martin himself performed many of the same jokes on other players, also made fun of Andrew McDonald publicly, and participated in the behavior?  Oh, because he was "just trying to fit in," right?

Why didn't Andrew McDonald walk out on the team?  Oh, because he knew it was joking, not mean spirited, and can take it.

The only different variable in this case to ALL other cases in the NFL is that Jonathan Martin had pre-existing unaddressed self-esteem issues and mental instability and needed to seek help.  What would otherwise seem to be harmless fun and friendly banter was (mis)interpreted as mean spirited and evil by him.

I don't see where, in the report, this is addressed.

[Spider-Dan]

Brian,

Were you also disappointed that the NFL did not investigate whether other teams were also taping opposing sidelines, or whether other teams were providing financial incentives for knocking opposing players out of the game?

The typical locker-room behavior canard is not an excuse.  If "everyone else is doing it too" but the Dolphins got caught, then guess what?  They're the ones that have to deal with it.

As to the intent of the offending players, did not Incognito himself say that the goal was to see if they could break the target(s)?
As to why McDonald didn't walk out, not every harassment victim reports it.  Unlike Martin, McDonald isn't an early-round draft pick that has started every game; if McDonald had left, we never would have even heard about it.  What kind of news story is "Third-string lineman leaves the team"?

[Phishfan]

This wasn't even an independent investigation.

This was a report prepared at Ross's request.

Your facts are way off base. This was an independent investigation ordered by the NFL. Ross did request the NFL investigate but had nothing to do with who the invesitgators were or how the report was written. Therefore, it is an independent investigation commissioned by the NFL.

[Brian Fein]

I'm not saying the Dolphins don't have to deal with it.  But what I am saying is that I wish the report were more objective, rather than BEGINNING with the assumption that "XYZ happened."  I'd rather have had them compare the behavior to typical behavior from similar environments.

Surely you can see the difference between internal teammate dispute and intent to injure other players (Saints) or cheating for competitive advantage (Patriots).  This has nothing to do with opposing teams/players.

[Spider-Dan]

It's still a case of you saying, "But everyone else is doing it, too!" which is not an excuse and should not even be factored into the report.  Whether or not the Dolphins' locker room antics are typical is just as irrelevant as whether or not other teams are also making walls of trainers on their sidelines during punt returns, which is precisely why Mike Westhoff's "The Patriots do it too!" excuse was not only dismissed, but fined.

Furthermore, given the manner in which ex-players are falling over themselves insisting that the stuff going on in the Dolphins' locker room was NOT typical, why would you think an investigation by Wells into other NFL locker rooms would bear any fruit?

[Brian Fein]

I'm not asking for an investigation into other locker rooms.

I'm asking for unbiased subjective investigation, not assumption of cause for an event that transpired based on unilateral testimony.

[Pappy13]

Did you even read the report?  The second paragraph of the report states:

"...three starters of the offensive line...engaged in a pattern of harassment directed, not only at Martin, but also another young Dolphins offensive lineman..."

The report builds on this.

This is typical of a report of this nature. The summary of their conclusions will be at the top of the report and the supporting details as to why they came to those conclusions will be presented afterwards. The summary is based on the details, not the other way around even though the summary is presented first.

Having said that, I do believe that there are alternative opinions to what was presented in the Wells report. Omar Kelly had a nice piece that presents another side to the story, a side that Wells knew nothing of because his only view of the Dolphins was after the story broke. Sides had already been chosen up. People had already decided what their version of the story was. Omar was there, in the locker room while all of this was going on. Not necessarily while the harrasment was taking place, but he saw Incognito and Martin and how they interacted with each other in the locker room. Omar said he saw a friendship there and that's the same message that virtually everyone else in that locker has said, that there was a friendship between Martin and Incognito and no one saw through the facade that Martin was putting up. That doesn't excuse their actions, but it does show that it wasn't just a bunch of dumb jocks that didn't see it, it was also an outsider, a reporter that was fooled as well. So while I respect what guys like Jason Taylor have said and to a large degree I agree with him, he wasn't in that locker room and see it first hand. We have no way of knowing if Taylor would have also been fooled by Martin.

And don't forget that while Martin has come forward as being harrassed and bullied and mentions that others were also harrassed and bullied, those people have not come forward now even after the story broke. Player A has had nothing but good things to say about Miami and his time there is my understanding. My understanding is that he did not believe a line was crossed with the harrassment and he is no longer even with the Dolphins so he has nothing to fear from the Miami organization. Unless he believes that every NFL team and not just the Dolphins are "in on it" as Spider would say, why hasn't he come to the defense of Martin?

There's a lot of sides to this discussion. Martin's side, the Dolphins side, the Wells report and then there is the truth. I doubt we'll ever really know what the truth is, but my guess is that truth lies somewhere in between Martin's side and the Dolphins side. The Wells report gave their conclusions, but those conclusions were based on interviews with the players after the story broke, they never had a chance to see the side of the Dolphins locker room that people like Omar Kelly saw. The Wells report is not the truth, it's just another side of the story, an unbiased side maybe, but not necessarily the truth.

[Tenshot13]

This is typical of a report of this nature. The summary of their conclusions will be at the top of the report and the supporting details as to why they came to those conclusions will be presented afterwards. The summary is based on the details, not the other way around even though the summary is presented first.

Having said that, I do believe that there are alternative opinions to what was presented in the Wells report. Omar Kelly had a nice piece that presents another side to the story, a side that Wells knew nothing of because his only view of the Dolphins was after the story broke. Sides had already been chosen up. People had already decided what their version of the story was. Omar was there, in the locker room while all of this was going on. Not necessarily while the harrasment was taking place, but he saw Incognito and Martin and how they interacted with each other in the locker room. Omar said he saw a friendship there and that's the same message that virtually everyone else in that locker has said, that there was a friendship between Martin and Incognito and no one saw through the facade that Martin was putting up. That doesn't excuse their actions, but it does show that it wasn't just a bunch of dumb jocks that didn't see it, it was also an outsider, a reporter that was fooled as well. So while I respect what guys like Jason Taylor have said and to a large degree I agree with him, he wasn't in that locker room and see it first hand. We have no way of knowing if Taylor would have also been fooled by Martin.

And don't forget that while Martin has come forward as being harrassed and bullied and mentions that others were also harrassed and bullied, those people have not come forward now even after the story broke. Player A has had nothing but good things to say about Miami and his time there is my understanding. My understanding is that he did not believe a line was crossed with the harrassment and he is no longer even with the Dolphins so he has nothing to fear from the Miami organization. Unless he believes that every NFL team and not just the Dolphins are "in on it" as Spider would say, why hasn't he come to the defense of Martin?

There's a lot of sides to this discussion. Martin's side, the Dolphins side, the Wells report and then there is the truth. I doubt we'll ever really know what the truth is, but my guess is that truth lies somewhere in between Martin's side and the Dolphins side. The Wells report gave their conclusions, but those conclusions were based on interviews with the players after the story broke, they never had a chance to see the side of the Dolphins locker room that people like Omar Kelly saw. The Wells report is not the truth, it's just another side of the story, an unbiased side maybe, but not necessarily the truth.

You've got to start putting a TL;DR cliff notes at the bottom.  My ADD was kicking in.

[Spider-Dan]

I'm asking for unbiased subjective investigation, not assumption of cause for an event that transpired based on unilateral testimony.

On what basis do you claim that the testimony was unilateral?

Wells interviewed a LOT of people and based the report on his findings from those interviews.  He didn't just take Martin's word for it.

[Spider-Dan]

And don't forget that while Martin has come forward as being harrassed and bullied and mentions that others were also harrassed and bullied, those people have not come forward now even after the story broke. Player A has had nothing but good things to say about Miami and his time there is my understanding. My understanding is that he did not believe a line was crossed with the harrassment and he is no longer even with the Dolphins so he has nothing to fear from the Miami organization. Unless he believes that every NFL team and not just the Dolphins are "in on it" as Spider would say, why hasn't he come to the defense of Martin?

Martin is an early-round draft pick that has started every eligible game.  He currently stands a poor chance of ever playing another down in the NFL.

Why would a practice-squad player or assistant trainer throw away their career by admitting they were harassed?

[Brian Fein]

On what basis do you claim that the testimony was unilateral?

Wells interviewed a LOT of people and based the report on his findings from those interviews.  He didn't just take Martin's word for it.

The fact that, on multiple occasions within the body of the report, there were phrases used such as "we find Incognito's testimony to be incredulous because..."  There were numerous instances where conflicting points of view were discredited as lies and fallacy, but any pro-Martin evidence was always taken as gospel.

An objective report would present evidence from both sides.  This report is written as if it was by Martin's attorney.

[Spider-Dan]

That's a weird kind of CNN-style "this is one side, and this is the other side, so the truth is probably in the middle or something" expectation of objectivity.  Sometimes one person is lying, and they need to be called out as such.

As I read it, Wells interviewed everyone, but Incognito's claims did not match up with others' testimony or even his own actions (e.g. his attempt to have the fine book destroyed).  Martin's claims were more in line with the other testimony given (and the evidence of messages stretching back months before that).

[Brian Fein]

^^ They supposedly interviewed every player on the team.  Why weren't those testimonies included in the report?

[Pappy13]

Martin is an early-round draft pick that has started every eligible game.  He currently stands a poor chance of ever playing another down in the NFL.

Why would a practice-squad player or assistant trainer throw away their career by admitting they were harassed?

Why stop there Spider? I don't see how you have the guts to be posting on this website, the NFL will come looking for you next.

[Spider-Dan]

Not sure if serious, but the proper analogy would be me being scared to report harassment at my own workplace for fear of retaliation.

If you think that's crazy and unbelievable, I don't know to tell you.