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Author Topic: What should the NFL do about Patriots cheating?  (Read 55161 times)
Brian Fein
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WHAAAAA???

chunkyb
« Reply #30 on: January 22, 2015, 10:32:21 am »

I agree with what you said but I turn it another way...

It doesn't matter if it gives you an advantage or not.  Rules are rules, and are in place for a reason.  Any DELIBERATE attempt to violate the rules is considered cheating and should be punished.
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Thundergod
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« Reply #31 on: January 22, 2015, 11:13:57 am »

The only reason people are pissy is because it's New England and their infamous spy gate scandal. No one's made any issues of Rodgers liking his footballs over inflated. Or the fact that maybe, just maybe the Patriots aren't the only team to have possibly done this (they just got caught). If this isn't the first time they've done this, it sure as hell hasn't worked since their last SB win, ages ago.

An under inflated ball may give a player better grip, but good defenses can alter, read and prevent plays from being executed correctly. Not to mention Brady's stats were worse in the first half (under inflated) than the second half (when the balls were supposedly removed).

I'm not defending them possibly deflating footballs, I just think the whole thing is silly. Fine them and move on.

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Dave Gray
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« Reply #32 on: January 22, 2015, 11:28:54 am »

I agree with what you said but I turn it another way...

It doesn't matter if it gives you an advantage or not.  Rules are rules, and are in place for a reason.  Any DELIBERATE attempt to violate the rules is considered cheating and should be punished.

This is correct.  The Patriots were INTENDING to cheat to gain an advantage.  Whether or not it actually provided them an advantage isn't what matters, in this case.
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MikeO
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« Reply #33 on: January 22, 2015, 11:33:53 am »

The Pats will lose a draft pick or two for sure.

But to me the real punishment is that this franchise and everything they have accomplished in the last 15 years has been tarnished. Even if they win next Sunday vs Seattle its tainted and tarnished because of this. They intended to cheat and break the rules. Between Spygate and this the cloud of them being "cheaters" won't go away for them ever as long as Belichick and Brady are there. It's gonna stick. And for Pats fans and everyone in New England they brush it off as no big deal and ignore it and gloss over it, but to the rest of the country they are viewed as cheaters.
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masterfins
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« Reply #34 on: January 22, 2015, 11:40:33 am »

We will never know whether it gave them an advantage.  I'm sure they only did it because of the forecast for rain, as it would allow a slight advantage in trying to hold onto the ball.  There is no way of knowing if Brady might have thrown a slightly errant pass, which could have gone for an incomplete or perhaps an interception.  No way of knowing if a handoff might have been fumbled, or the timing thrown off.  No way of knowing whether a receiver of RB might have fumbled because of a looser grip.  The point is they cheated, and got caught.  Fine them, take away draft picks, and suspend them for a few games next season.
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CF DolFan
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cf_dolfan
« Reply #35 on: January 22, 2015, 01:04:10 pm »

read something pretty interesting ... Josh McDaniels shouldn't go untouched either. He was the offensive coordinator who benefited under spygate, he was fined for videotaping incident when he was the head coach at Denver, and now the offensive coordinator who is calling the shots under this cheat.

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Dave Gray
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« Reply #36 on: January 22, 2015, 01:06:59 pm »

It's also almost guaranteed that they didn't just cheat twice and got caught twice.  I'm sure that this kind of thing (and many other things as well) have been going on for decades.
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MaineDolFan
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« Reply #37 on: January 22, 2015, 01:50:07 pm »

Until the NFL goes back and does something to Tampa Bay now that their starting QB has admitted to bribing someone $7,500.00 to scuff up the game balls after they were inspected, but before the game V Oakland:  Personally I'm on the "who cares" fence.  Tampa won a Super Bowl that game.  It was a pretty good game.  Did that impact the biggest game of the year?

Warren Moon was on the radio yesterday saying he replaced an entire bag of game balls, right before kick off, with balls used during the week prior due to the fact they were "worn in and game ready."  This was while he was in Houston, I believe, and in a playoff game - and he said it was standard practice.  He also said a ton of balls are manipulated, especially by kickers, in order to maximize a kick.  He said one team known to do this the most is / was Denver, and it's widely known due to the conditions of kicking in that city. 

Russell Wilson has the hands of a seven year old girl.  Am I to believe balls have never been adjusted to his liking?  Aaron Rodgers has the stones to admit he does / prefers it.

The only person who handles a game ball more than the QB = the referee and game staff.  Several times each play, actually, and they didn't notice a difference.  So, how much of a difference was there?

The one thing the Pats and their fans have correct in this are the shirts they have printed up:  "They hate us because they ain't us."  I'm willing to bet you all a doughnut Danny Marino used to doctor up balls to his liking too during his playing days, but no one ever said a word. 

...and we're talking about this being a huge deal / a cultural thing within the team?
« Last Edit: January 22, 2015, 01:52:09 pm by MaineDolFan » Logged

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Spider-Dan
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« Reply #38 on: January 22, 2015, 02:00:38 pm »

The "everyone else does it too" defense is tired and lazy.  Everyone else didn't get caught.
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Dolphin-UK
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« Reply #39 on: January 22, 2015, 02:04:27 pm »

Am I the only one who thinks this whole different ball thing is ridiculous?  A ball is a ball is a ball. Both teams should use the same balls, worn in in the same way, at the same pressure. Kickers should kick the same balls that are thrown.

I have smallish hands and know its tough for me to toss a football and near impossible in the wet. So guess what? I'm not going to be an NFL QB.

Just standardise the process (or make a ball that doesn't need to be worn in!) and remove that option to cheat.

And on the matter at hand, if it was so obvious that a DB who comparitively speaking touches the ball a hundreth of the times a QB does could see the ball was deflated, there is no way Brady didn't know as soon as he picked them up that something was up with them, the QB practically lives with the ball in their hands, think they don't know what the normal pressure feels like? Someone deliberately chose to cheat and there needs to be some form of punishment.
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CF DolFan
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« Reply #40 on: January 22, 2015, 02:09:38 pm »

The NFL should supply the balls.

Maine ... the funny thing about Brad Johnson and others is they didn't get caught. It really seems odd to me that you wouldn't have an issue with this.  That's akin to saying we should not prosecute criminals where we have evidence because someone else got away with the same crime because we can't prove it.
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Dave Gray
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« Reply #41 on: January 22, 2015, 02:22:01 pm »

Yeah, really....   Everyone else does it?  Who cares -- they won't, once you stick it to the people who get caught cheating.
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Sunstroke
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« Reply #42 on: January 22, 2015, 02:34:53 pm »

Russell Wilson has the hands of a seven year old girl.  Am I to believe balls have never been adjusted to his liking? 

When you make things up out of the blue, you really should expect to get called out for it. The quote above is a good example of that. Not only does Russell Wilson not have the hands of a seven year old girl, he has one of the largest set of mitts among all QBs in the NFL (10.25")...right up there with both Manning and Brady, who are known for their large hands. Wilson's hands were larger than any QB's hands in the 2012 draft class (a full inch and a quarter larger than Tannehill's), and were so large that the Wall Street Journal even wrote an article about "Russell Wilson's HUGE HANDS."

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702304856504579338703990998202

« Last Edit: January 22, 2015, 02:36:25 pm by Sunstroke » Logged

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Pappy13
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« Reply #43 on: January 22, 2015, 02:40:18 pm »

Until the NFL goes back and does something to Tampa Bay now that their starting QB has admitted to bribing someone $7,500.00 to scuff up the game balls after they were inspected
Wrong. This was done before the inspection and completely within the rules. It wasn't a bribe, he just paid them to condition the balls to his liking. The only reason this is even mentioned is because it was the superbowl and teams do not provide the balls for the superbowl, the league does. So he paid someone to get the balls and condition them prior to the game which doesn't normally happen because each team supplies their own balls which they have every opportunity to condition themselves.

Warren Moon was on the radio yesterday saying he replaced an entire bag of game balls, right before kick off, with balls used during the week prior due to the fact they were "worn in and game ready."  This was while he was in Houston, I believe, and in a playoff game - and he said it was standard practice.  He also said a ton of balls are manipulated, especially by kickers, in order to maximize a kick.  He said one team known to do this the most is / was Denver, and it's widely known due to the conditions of kicking in that city. 
Honestly it sounds like Warren has taken one too many shots to the head because he doesn't know what he's talking about. It's completely legal for the kickers and/or the QB's to condition the balls (break them in) prior to them being inspected. Once inspected however they can't be touched especially not by a Kicker because those balls are taken and given to an official that hands out the ball when it's time to kick it. No kicker is allowed anywhere near a football that is used in a game after they have been inspected now. It wasn't always like this so maybe Warren is talking about prior to the way it is now, but he's not talking present day then, he's talking about the past. Big difference. At one time all the balls were supplied by the home team and teams started complaining that they didn't like the ways balls were being conditioned by the home team so that's when they changed the rules and now each team conditions their own balls during the week and then gives them to the officials to inspect. Once inspected no one is to alter the balls in any way. It's NOT common practice unless you are talking about the Patriots. In fact the Colts who were playing in the exact same game did not alter their balls after the inspection. They played by the rules, the Patriots didn't.

The only person who handles a game ball more than the QB = the referee and game staff.  Several times each play, actually, and they didn't notice a difference.  So, how much of a difference was there?
You won't really notice a 2 psi difference unless you actually squeeze the ball pretty good. There will be a difference but it's slight and if you are just spotting it for the next snap you wouldn't notice the difference.

The one thing the Pats and their fans have correct in this are the shirts they have printed up:  "They hate us because they ain't us."  I'm willing to bet you all a doughnut Danny Marino used to doctor up balls to his liking too during his playing days, but no one ever said a word.
It's completely within the rules to "doctor up" the balls before they are inspected. Once inspected though you can't do a thing to them. Frankly you don't know what you are talking about.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2015, 03:32:19 pm by Pappy13 » Logged

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CF DolFan
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cf_dolfan
« Reply #44 on: January 22, 2015, 04:17:58 pm »

Reports are that Brady is going to take the fall ... basically admitting to his teammates in a closed door team meeting. I bet the NFL sits on this until the off-season but everyone knows this should be handled swiftly.
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