racism is bad, censorship is worse

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

While I find the chant at OU just as offensive as the Nazi march thru Skokie Illinois,  both ought be protected by the 1st amendment.   

[Sunstroke]

^^^ Meaning what? That they shouldn't have been punished for it?

I think the actions by the University (expelling the students), as well as the actions by the national SAE fraternity chapter (shutting down the SAE chapter at OU), were appropriate.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

^^^ Meaning what? That they shouldn't have been punished for it?

I think the actions by the University (expelling the students), as well as the actions by the national SAE fraternity chapter (shutting down the SAE chapter at OU), were appropriate.

expelling students for speach is worse than anything they said.  When a student can be expelled for saying something that government finds offensive we become a tyranny.

It is easy to defend the 1st amendment when you agree with the speaker.   But that is not what the 1st amendment is about.  Unless you are willing to allow those you find offensive freedom of speech there is no freedom of speech

[Dave Gray]

I got no problem with it.  These are violations of student conduct and the school is acting within their rights to protect their image and their pocketbook.

[Sunstroke]

expelling students for speach is worse than anything they said.  When a student can be expelled for saying something that government finds offensive we become a tyranny.

Expelling students for saying something that 99.99999% of humanity finds offensive isn't tyranny, it's an overdue life lesson...

I got no problem with it.  These are violations of student conduct and the school is acting within their rights to protect their image and their pocketbook.

I agree completely. Freedom of speech doesn't mean you can say whatever you want, whenever you want, without fear of consequences.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

The very definition of freedom of speech is the ability to say anything you want even if 99.999999% of the world finds it offensive without consequences from a government actor

I agree with the national org ending the charter.  But a state school expelling a student for speach is tyranny.

[Cathal]

Freedom of speech doesn't allow you to say whatever you want..... I thought you were in law? Maybe you want to rephrase what you meant since the always referenced "Can't yell fire at a crowded theater" is used to describe what you can't say.

[Phishfan]

The very definition of freedom of speech is the ability to say anything you want even if 99.999999% of the world finds it offensive without consequences from a government actor

I agree with the national org ending the charter.  But a state school expelling a student for speach is tyranny.

Dude you are way off base (as is most of the country) on what the First Amendment actually means. We've gone over this very same discussion several times on this board. No one is protected from saying anything they want.

[Dave Gray]

In Hoodie's defense, he's got a point, in that a university rides the line between a private entity and a government entity. 

When you enter a school, you agree to certain conduct.  They can throw you out of school for way less than this.

[Brian Fein]

I have no clue what you guys are talking about.  Off to Google...

[Dave Gray]

^ Basically, video appears of a fraternity changing very racist chant on a bus -- something along the lines of "there will never be a n***** in SAE" and hanging them from a tree.

Video got online.  Students flipped out.  Fraternity closed the chapter.  School banned the fraternity from returning.  President expelled 2 students who organized the chant.

[Phishfan]

In Hoodie's defense, he's got a point, in that a university rides the line between a private entity and a government entity. 

Maybe if we were discussing a different type of activity though. This type of speech isn't protected regardless of it being a government entity. Chanting about hanging a specific race from a tree definitely falls under hate speech.

[Spider-Dan]

I don't think the original point is valid at all.  If I'm employed by the government, does this mean I can say whatever I like publicly and there must not ever be any repercussions from my job?

These students were exercising their First Amendment rights.
They will not be arrested by the government for doing so.
The Constitution is safe.

However, there is no part of the Bill of Rights that guarantees a citizen admittance into a public university.

[Brian Fein]

Saw a thorough article on CNN about it.  I get it now.  

And, no, this isn't protected under free speech.  Free speech protects you from being thrown in jail for saying stuff like "The President is an asshole" - which people seem to say a lot these days.

There will always be consequences for your actions.  Always.  I support every action taken against these assholes.

[Tenshot13]

I don't think the original point is valid at all.  If I'm employed by the government, does this mean I can say whatever I like publicly and there must not ever be any repercussions from my job?

These students were exercising their First Amendment rights.
They will not be arrested by the government for doing so.
The Constitution is safe.

However, there is no part of the Bill of Rights that guarantees a citizen admittance into a public university.

This