Tannehill

[Dolfanalyst]

I disagree with your assessment that you need an elite QB.  Plenty of contrary examples in NFL history.  Frankly the discussion of "elite" with respect to QB's is a tired one.

Any team can be successful in the NFL with the right puzzle pieces.  Plenty of teams have had success with average-to-mediocre QB's and dominant defenses.  Concurrently, the "elite" label is self-fulfilling, as most talking heads will consider any QB who has won a Super Bowl as "elite" (see: Russell Wilson).

And what exactly is the best argument that Russell Wilson isn't elite?

[Sunstroke]

And what exactly is the best argument that Russell Wilson isn't elite?

I'd probably have to agree with ya on this one, but then again, I have been pimping Russell Wilson since before he was drafted, and lit candles that either Miami or San Fran would select him.  I think that, if he isn't considered "elite" at this point, then give him one more season like this past one and he sure should be.

On a side note: In a different thread, I brought up a QB prospect's (Paxton Lynch) abnormally large hand size. Russell Wilson also falls into this category. For a smaller QB, his hand size (10.5 inches) is extremely humongous.

[Cathal]

People consider Russell Wilson elite? Really? He's above average in my opinion, but not great. Granted, I don't watch all of the Seahawks games, but from the playoffs and Super Bowls, he isn't showing a lot.

[Tenshot13]

After this year, I'd say Wilson is in the "very good" category.  Not ready to put him in elite status just yet.  If he does it again next year, you can group him with the best in the league.

[dolphins4life]

The complete history of the game, however, may not apply as strongly after the point at which the rules of the game are changed.

And they were, in 2004, to favor the offensive passing game.

Since 2004:

Brady
Roethlisberger
Peyton Manning
Eli Manning
Roethlisberger
Brees
Rodgers
Eli Manning
Flacco
Wilson
Brady

All of these guys are elite.

[Dolfanalyst]

Since 2004:

Brady
Roethlisberger
Peyton Manning
Eli Manning
Roethlisberger
Brees
Rodgers
Eli Manning
Flacco
Wilson
Brady

All of these guys are elite.

I think you could make a case that Eli Manning and Flacco aren't in the company of the others, but then again, like I said above, the point becomes kind of moot when you realize that Eli Manning and Flacco played like elite QBs virtually throughout the playoffs in those years they won Super Bowls.

So the upshot, really, is that no team has won a Super Bowl since 2004 without an "elite" (i.e., either in character, or who was playing like one at the time) QB.

That's a pretty strong argument for the importance of the position, and why Dolphins' fans -- if they're interested in winning a Super Bowl -- should by no means settle on the level of play Ryan Tannehill has established over the last couple years.

[dolphins4life]

Tannehill's last two quarterback ratings are 92 and 88.

Not bad at all.

[Dolfanalyst]

Tannehill's last two quarterback ratings are 92 and 88.

Not bad at all.

And also not good (enough).

The average QB rating in the league this year was 90.3.

[dolphins4life]

Brady made the AFC title game in 2013 with an 87.1 quarterback rating. 

Flacco won the Super Bowl in 2012 with an 87.1

Roethlisberger won the Super Bowl in 2008 with a rating of 80.1

Eli Manning won the Super Bowl in 2007 with a rating of 73.9 

PS, it is hard to have a high quarterback rating when your linemen can't block.  It really says volumes about how bad your supporting cast is when you get sacked three times on a drive when you are driving for a tying touchdown.  Plus, his weaponry at the receiving corp really wasn't anything spectacular. 

[EKnight]

Hard to take seriously any kind of "elite" QB list that doesn't include Cam Newton. He's doing things- and he has been since his rookie year- that no QB on that list, and often times, no QB ever, has done.

[Dolfanalyst]

Brady made the AFC title game in 2013 with an 87.1 quarterback rating. 

Flacco won the Super Bowl in 2012 with an 87.1

Roethlisberger won the Super Bowl in 2008 with a rating of 80.1

Eli Manning won the Super Bowl in 2007 with a rating of 73.9 

PS, it is hard to have a high quarterback rating when your linemen can't block.  It really says volumes about how bad your supporting cast is when you get sacked three times on a drive when you are driving for a tying touchdown.  Plus, his weaponry at the receiving corp really wasn't anything spectacular. 

So again, we're down to 3 Super Bowls out of the last 12.  Not good odds.

Do you have any idea what normally happens when QBs have ratings like those?  An 8-8 season record, on average, based on the 97 times it's happened in a season since 2004, for QBs with at least 400 pass attempts in a season.

[dolphins4life]

Again, look at the talent those guys have been surrounded with. 

[Sunstroke]

After this year, I'd say Wilson is in the "very good" category.  Not ready to put him in elite status just yet.  If he does it again next year, you can group him with the best in the league.

Fair enough...I think that, even with the monster season he had this year, Wilson hasn't peaked yet.

Team loyalties aside, Russell Wilson might just be my favorite QB in the league right now. Started day one in the NFL and was an immediate leader of that team. He's an ironman that has been in the league 4 seasons and has played in all 74 of Seattle's regular and postseason games. He's extremely respectful and professional with the media and fans, so count that as a thug factor of zero. He's extremely intelligent, like academic honor roll at NC State kind of smart. He works extremely hard during the offseason, except for the week where he takes off to join the Rangers for MLB's spring training. As a person who fervently follows two sports year-round, football and baseball, the fact that Russell is also a hell of a baseball player (drafted twice by MLB) makes me like him even more,

Bonus point: He also does a very cool commercial  for Bose ("Whose bird is that? ...it's Russell Wilson's bird.").

Hard to take seriously any kind of "elite" QB list that doesn't include Cam Newton. He's doing things- and he has been since his rookie year- that no QB on that list, and often times, no QB ever, has done.

I think he's in the same situation as Wilson. What an amazing season and start to his career, and if he has another one (or even slightly better) next season, then people will have to start considering him one of the best QBs in the game.

Bonus Point taken away: Cam Newton might be the WORST athlete-actor in the world today. His yogurt commercials are absolutely painful to watch.   

[dolphins4life]

What happened to this thread?

[fyo]

But yet even their statistics are clutch-weighted.  Note the following:

Yes, "Dolphinanalyst", that's what I said, almost verbatim:

"With this newfangled definition of clutch, FootballOutsiders' own statistics are clutch-weighted"