Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia dead at 79

[CF DolFan]

It seems that what you desire from Democratic President Obama is a Republican President that will turn a blind eye to the problems black people (and poor people) complain about, or that will resolutely defend "Second Amendment Rights" on the day of yet another mass shooting.

If Obama is "causing segregation and conflict" by being a liberal President, then I'm happy to see him do it.  While I'm sure that it would reduce a lot of conflict (from your perspective) if Obama were to simply parrot conservative talking points, I'll have to disagree on the subject.

Who's he helping by encouraging blacks to rally, fight and riot for causes that are wrong? I desire a president who stands for truth. As much as George Zimmerman may be trash, the police department did what they should have done and Zimmerman's trial and the Dept. of Justice's investigation proved that. The same thing happened in Ferguson where he went above vocal sentiment and even sent people to the funeral. Not once did the president tell the black community not to overreact or that they were wrong yet he continued to justify hatred towards the police by his statements.

On a related note, I'm going to take a wild guess and say that you don't believe the current calls in the Republican Presidential primary for a complete ban on Muslims and widespread deportation of immigrant families are causing any "segregation and conflict" at all.

I'm not a Trump fan other than the fact he made it OK not to be politically correct.  I've been behind Rubio for years. In fact although as a Christian I agree with most of Cruz's ideas I think he would be more of a divider than we need. You have to be flexible and willing to compromise and he is more similar to Obama but in conservative fashion ... and nobody needs that either.
 
I'm all for blacks being treated fairly just I as I am for Muslims being treated fairly but I can tell you one thing. If middle aged white Christian men are threatening public safety in the form of terrorism I'd expect you and everyone else would take a second look at me when meeting me. That's just common sense. I've been a young white trash teenager who was looked at differently. I've had the police visit my house and ask me to come to the station for questioning because a girl who I used to visit's neighborhood had a rash of break-ins. I understand both sides and yet I still keep my hands on the steering wheel when I get pulled over and answer yes sir and no sir because this police officer doesn't know me from Ted Bundy.

What I don't think people understand is that if you get rid of the Al and Jesse arguments of nothing and actually focused on issues where blacks really are discriminated against then most people, black or white, would easily back the causes. The police officer in South Carolina who shot the guy in the back running away was quickly vilified by everyone. Unfortunately more times than not the call to violence isn't justified and is more likely just a reason to loot and give Jesse and Al more money.

If people really wanted to have the rest of society interested in helping blacks then they would
1) quit calling themselves "African" American and automatically separating themselves from the people they complain about being separated from
2) quit rallying behind idiots like Al, Jesse, and violence condoning groups like Black Lives Matter
3) allow the justice system to work and then attack the system after it has proven not to work

[Phishfan]

^^^ Let's be honest CF, he has not encouraged riots. He may show support for a cause but he has never supported people rioting. You make some good points but starting with fallacy doesn't help your case.

Some of his quotes on the topic:

“nothing of significance, nothing of benefit results from destructive acts.”

“I’ve never seen a civil rights law or a health care bill or an immigration bill result because a car got burned,”

“I have no sympathy at all for destroying your own communities. But for the overwhelming majority of people who just feel frustrated and pain, because they get a sense that maybe some communities aren't treated fairly or some individuals aren't seen as worthy as others, I understand that,”

"There is never an excuse for violence against police or for those who would use this tragedy as a cover for vandalism and looting,"

"I join Michael's parents in asking anyone who protests this decision to do so peacefully,"

[Rich]

I agree that Obama has not in any way incited riots. I'm not a fan of the guy but let's tone it down a bit with the hyperbole.

That being said, for whatever reason and for whoever is to blame, his presidency was supposed to unite this nation and instead it seems further divided. Along racial lines and along ideological lines. He fell short of his promises to be post partisan (in fact, he has been hyper-partisan) and post racial (in fact, he has injected himself into racial issues in a way that does not demonstrate objectivity).

I get that the opposition party is going to *gasp* oppose him. That's how democracy typically works. And there are certainly elements on the right that are going to try to pull further right, just like elements on the left are going to do the same. But I seem to recall previous presidents such as Reagan and Clinton having to deal with the opposition party in Congress and accomplishing things.

And before you say that Obama gets it worse than Clinton... remember... Clinton was IMPEACHED by the Republicans. Clinton, however, had an ability to get Newt Gingrich and Bob Dole (and John Kasich for that matter) in a room and get something done. And he was able to get it done while the Republicans were spending a ton of resources to get him out of office.

I have seen no evidence from Obama that he has the same capability.

[Cathal]

Who's he helping by encouraging blacks to rally, fight and riot for causes that are wrong? I desire a president who stands for truth. As much as George Zimmerman may be trash, the police department did what they should have done and Zimmerman's trial and the Dept. of Justice's investigation proved that. The same thing happened in Ferguson where he went above vocal sentiment and even sent people to the funeral. Not once did the president tell the black community not to overreact or that they were wrong yet he continued to justify hatred towards the police by his statements.
I'm not a Trump fan other than the fact he made it OK not to be politically correct.  I've been behind Rubio for years. In fact although as a Christian I agree with most of Cruz's ideas I think he would be more of a divider than we need. You have to be flexible and willing to compromise and he is more similar to Obama but in conservative fashion ... and nobody needs that either.
 
I'm all for blacks being treated fairly just I as I am for Muslims being treated fairly but I can tell you one thing. If middle aged white Christian men are threatening public safety in the form of terrorism I'd expect you and everyone else would take a second look at me when meeting me. That's just common sense. I've been a young white trash teenager who was looked at differently. I've had the police visit my house and ask me to come to the station for questioning because a girl who I used to visit's neighborhood had a rash of break-ins. I understand both sides and yet I still keep my hands on the steering wheel when I get pulled over and answer yes sir and no sir because this police officer doesn't know me from Ted Bundy.

What I don't think people understand is that if you get rid of the Al and Jesse arguments of nothing and actually focused on issues where blacks really are discriminated against then most people, black or white, would easily back the causes. The police officer in South Carolina who shot the guy in the back running away was quickly vilified by everyone. Unfortunately more times than not the call to violence isn't justified and is more likely just a reason to loot and give Jesse and Al more money.

If people really wanted to have the rest of society interested in helping blacks then they would
1) quit calling themselves "African" American and automatically separating themselves from the people they complain about being separated from
2) quit rallying behind idiots like Al, Jesse, and violence condoning groups like Black Lives Matter
3) allow the justice system to work and then attack the system after it has proven not to work

Cruz can't even determine how Obama has inflamed racial tension after having said Obama has inflamed racial tension. It's just a blanket statement that he can't even support.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/29/politics/ted-cruz-obama-racial-tensions-election-2016/

[Rich]

Cruz can't even determine how Obama has inflamed racial tension after having said Obama has inflamed racial tension. It's just a blanket statement that he can't even support.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/29/politics/ted-cruz-obama-racial-tensions-election-2016/

Who cares about Cruz? He's a wacko and I'm sure he isn't going to win the nomination.

[Spider-Dan]

Who's he helping by encouraging blacks to rally, fight and riot for causes that are wrong?

[...]

Not once did the president tell the black community not to overreact or that they were wrong yet he continued to justify hatred towards the police by his statements.

Again, that's like, your opinion, man.

You and I have had the exact same disagreements on this forum about the exact same subjects, so it should not be surprising to you that a liberal president should approach these situations from at least a marginally liberal position of "These people may have some legitimate grievances, but let's avoid violence and protest peacefully."

The conservative position is that these black protesters were wrong and should sit down and shut up.  You basically just want Obama to be a Republican President.

I'm all for blacks being treated fairly just I as I am for Muslims being treated fairly but I can tell you one thing. If middle aged white Christian men are threatening public safety in the form of terrorism I'd expect you and everyone else would take a second look at me when meeting me.

And what would you say if armed black protesters (or armed Muslims) forcibly took over federal property for over a month?

What I don't think people understand is that if you get rid of the Al and Jesse arguments of nothing and actually focused on issues where blacks really are discriminated against then most people, black or white, would easily back the causes.

Please give me an example of conservatives supporting an issue where blacks really are discriminated against.

Even in the case of the SC officer shooting Walter Scott in the back, conservatives everywhere insist (as always) that that was just one bad apple and certainly not indicative of some sort of widespread discrimination against blacks by cops.

If people really wanted to have the rest of society interested in helping blacks then they would
[...]
3) allow the justice system to work and then attack the system after it has proven not to work

How many hundreds of years do black people need to wait for the justice system to work before they can start attacking it?

[Cathal]

Who cares about Cruz? He's a wacko and I'm sure he isn't going to win the nomination.

I completely agree with that. I only brought up Cruz because CF DolFan said he agrees with some of what he says and repeated the same line that Cruz did where he is more of a divider. I figured if he might have heard that from Cruz then he should see how bad of a statement it is when Cruz can't support it. 'Tis all.

[Rich]

I completely agree with that. I only brought up Cruz because CF DolFan said he agrees with some of what he says and repeated the same line that Cruz did where he is more of a divider. I figured if he might have heard that from Cruz then he should see how bad of a statement it is when Cruz can't support it. 'Tis all.

Well from a partisan standpoint, he is a divider. I think he has been the president least willing to compromise with the opposite side of the aisle in my lifetime.

[Spider-Dan]

I can't remember the last time the leader of the Senate opposition party said that his "number one priority" was to make sure the current President served only one term.

So perhaps the reason why Obama has been the "least willing to compromise with the opposite side of the aisle" is because the opposite side of the aisle has traditionally not set out to oppose the President at any cost.

[Rich]

I can't remember the last time the leader of the Senate opposition party said that his "number one priority" was to make sure the current President served only one term.

So perhaps the reason why Obama has been the "least willing to compromise with the opposite side of the aisle" is because the opposite side of the aisle has traditionally not set out to oppose the President at any cost.

So his leadership style is to be as petty as those that have less power than him.

That's not leadership.

Again, we had a president being actively impeached by the opposition party negotiating with the opposition party. These politicians all trash each other and then go to dinner or rub elbows at events. Well, the ones that don't have thin skin that is...

[Spider-Dan]

If Obama had gotten a blowjob from an intern, they would have tried to impeach him, too.  It's not like they like Obama more than Clinton.

I'd be happy to cite all sorts of metrics about the historic levels of obstruction Obama has faced from the GOP, but I doubt it's necessary; I think conservatives would just say that Obama has faced more obstruction than any prior president because he deserves it (whereas, say, Dubya did not).

[Rich]

You've already proven that you're quite adept at making superfluous points. No need to continue the trend. You win that competition... by a mile.

Bottom line, maybe he wasn't cut out for the job of president because he wasn't cut out to deal with people who would *gasp* have a different opinion or even have the audacity to obstruct him.

He promised to be a post partisan, post racial president. He did not succeed. Whatever the reasons or excuses you want to put up about opposition and obstruction... we are more partisan and more divided along racial lines. Period.

And he should share the responsibility in this failure. He sure did his fair share of gloating when he had both houses of Congress on his side. It's not surprising the Republicans came back with a vengeance when they took the House.

[pondwater]

I'd be happy to cite all sorts of metrics about the historic levels of obstruction Obama has faced from the GOP, but I doubt it's necessary; I think conservatives would just say that Obama has faced more obstruction than any prior president because he deserves it (whereas, say, Dubya did not).

You use the word obstruction like they are doing something wrong. It's only wrong because you don't agree with it. It about checks and balances. That's how the system works.

It seems that what you desire from Democratic President Obama is a Republican President that will turn a blind eye to the problems black people (and poor people) complain about, or

It seems that what you desire is a Republican congress that will do whatever a Democratic President wants. Otherwise you start throwing words like obstruct and sabotage around. It seems to me that Obama is trying to obstruct and sabotage the 2nd amendment. It seems to me that Obama is trying to obstruct and sabotage our immigration laws.

[CF DolFan]

I completely agree with that. I only brought up Cruz because CF DolFan said he agrees with some of what he says and repeated the same line that Cruz did where he is more of a divider. I figured if he might have heard that from Cruz then he should see how bad of a statement it is when Cruz can't support it. 'Tis all.

I said Cruz would be more of a divider like Obama. I don't see either one wanting to bring people together. they have their opinion and do not compromise. Regardless of if I may agree with Cruz and his Biblical interpretations I don't think you can govern with such a black and white hand. there is a reason while Cruz has friends in congress yet no one will publicly support him.   

My pastor ... who happens to be one of Obama's spiritual advisers is a hard core conservative but yet he will work with anyone. He was one of Bush's as well. He teaches to find common ground and work from there instead of standing back and pointing out your differences.

[CF DolFan]

^^^ Let's be honest CF, he has not encouraged riots. He may show support for a cause but he has never supported people rioting. You make some good points but starting with fallacy doesn't help your case.

Some of his quotes on the topic:

“nothing of significance, nothing of benefit results from destructive acts.”

“I’ve never seen a civil rights law or a health care bill or an immigration bill result because a car got burned,”

“I have no sympathy at all for destroying your own communities. But for the overwhelming majority of people who just feel frustrated and pain, because they get a sense that maybe some communities aren't treated fairly or some individuals aren't seen as worthy as others, I understand that,”

"There is never an excuse for violence against police or for those who would use this tragedy as a cover for vandalism and looting,"

"I join Michael's parents in asking anyone who protests this decision to do so peacefully,"

How many times has he come out against the 50 or so police officers who were shot, run over or beaten to death last year? He certainly came out to support Trayvon and Michael. 9 more police officers this year alone. His silence is heard by everyone who wants to hear it.