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Author Topic: It's official: Hillary vs. Trump  (Read 79437 times)
pondwater
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« Reply #30 on: July 27, 2016, 04:28:57 pm »

This guy shouldn't even be eligible for a security clearance.
So then you'll have 2 candidates that aren't eligible for a security clearance. Just great.
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Spider-Dan
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« Reply #31 on: July 27, 2016, 04:29:47 pm »

We're on the verge of another economic meltdown. The Fed has only inflated another bubble when the old one popped. The thing about the current administration is that they are doing the same thing previous administrations have done. That's not an excuse, it means that these fools that we elect aren't learning from past mistakes.
If the election is framed as "Hillary will give you 4 more years of Bill Clinton/Obama" then Hillary will win.

This is for all the same reasons that Democrats always tried to tie McCain and Romney to "4 more years of Bush." I think that even if you are a conservative, it should be fairly obvious that the American public (as a whole) does not see the WJC and BHO years as roughly equal to the GWB years.  Trump's complete humiliation of the Bush family in the GOP primary shows that even Republicans still can't come to grips with the GWB presidency.

If this were a normal Republican opponent (Rubio, Cruz, Kasich, etc.) then Hillary would be frantically trying to frame this election as 4 more years of Bill/Obama policies vs. 4 more years of W policies.  Given the current state of economic measureables (unemployment, DJIA, strength of the dollar, etc.) and Obama's approval, I think it is a losing proposition to try to say that the country is currently in catastrophic failure.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2016, 04:33:26 pm by Spider-Dan » Logged

CF DolFan
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« Reply #32 on: July 27, 2016, 04:33:03 pm »

OMG ... so much craziness in the matter of a few hours. And this is exactly why no one speaks politics. It's idiotic.

Trump sounds worse than Hitler yet you can play Slick Willy Clinton's speeches and he sounds just like him. http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/05/17/1996_flashback_bill_clinton_talks_like_trump_on_immigration_we_are_a_nation_of_laws.html

John Kerry called a war hero and yet the people who served with him are criticized for calling him out

Homophobic vice-president? I thought the Pulse shooting cleared that up when all those crazy Republican police and ministers came a calling to help. I've been to Pulse several times and yet I disagree with same sex marriage. Guess I'm a conflicted homophobe. Heck ... maybe I'm a closet gay and just haven't realized it yet. It is possible to disagree without hating someone.

Trump mocks Hillary's "missing" emails using the democrats attack and he's the bad guy? No proof but Democrats accuse Trump and Putin of being in cahoots.

The Republican party is screwed up but the DNC is racist and wants to keep minorities on welfare. The party of the KKK is still controlling the weak.  Mass shooting of blacks this past weekend but barely a blip on the screen. Reports of just as many whites killed by police but "All lives Matter" is a racist comment.

People are afraid of Trump like I haven't seen since Reagan was elected. Me and my family were hard core Democrats back then and thought Reagan would start WW3. In hindsight he was one of the greatest presidents ever. I hope the same for goofy arse Trump.   

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CF DolFan
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« Reply #33 on: July 27, 2016, 04:35:52 pm »

How come no outrage for what was in the emails? How come no outrage for the DNC rigging the election and then Hillary hiring Wasserman to work on her campaign?

If you pretend Trump's joking comments about Russia finding those missing emails are so horrible then you really need to take a look at the tons of things you are overlooking being offended by. The DNC gives plenty. 
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Phishfan
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« Reply #34 on: July 27, 2016, 04:39:57 pm »

The party of the KKK is still controlling the weak. 

I hate to say this CF, but your family's switch from the Democrats to Republican was not the only group who made that jump. KKK organization have been supporting Trump and the Twitter ticker at the RNC even ran tweets from racists groups.

http://time.com/4418591/republican-convention-white-supremacist-tweet/
« Last Edit: July 27, 2016, 04:42:14 pm by Phishfan » Logged
Dave Gray
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« Reply #35 on: July 27, 2016, 04:42:05 pm »

To add: Democrats need to be scared of the left. 

As liberal-minded as I am, there is a fringe that is also anti-science (vaccines, GMOs) and an almost religious zealotry, but in being apologists for Muslim radicalism.  I fear a takeover of the middle, just like what happened with the right....I don't want to have a tea party version of liberals.
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pondwater
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« Reply #36 on: July 27, 2016, 04:45:47 pm »

I think it is a losing proposition to try to say that the country is currently in catastrophic failure.
No one saw the last one coming either, and the people that did were mocked. Current economic data shows patterns similar to before the last recession. But only now we have much more debt which is unsustainable. This economy is not real, it's been propped up by the fed. I guess you can blame the next one on Bush too.
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Phishfan
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« Reply #37 on: July 27, 2016, 04:48:16 pm »

To add: Democrats need to be scared of the left. 

As liberal-minded as I am, there is a fringe that is also anti-science (vaccines, GMOs) and an almost religious zealotry, but in being apologists for Muslim radicalism.  I fear a takeover of the middle, just like what happened with the right....I don't want to have a tea party version of liberals.

I know I am in the minority of liberals here but I want to add repeal of the second amendment as well. Persons on either side who won't even discuss the middle ground are equally wrong on the subject.
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Dave Gray
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« Reply #38 on: July 27, 2016, 04:53:55 pm »

I can't talk on that.  I actually want to repeal the 2nd amendment.

I'm not anti-guns, but I think that having it be an unalienable right in the constitution makes it too difficult to sensibly legislate guns out of the hands of would-be terrorists.  Until you ARE a terrorist, you're not a terrorist and deserve due process.  That's just too high of a standard, as weapons get more and more deadly.

I get why the right doesn't allow for any legislation -- even if we need it, doing so can be consideration a constitutional violation.  So, I am in favor of amending the constitution and allowing the states to have more freedom to put limitations.
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Spider-Dan
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« Reply #39 on: July 27, 2016, 04:59:01 pm »

Trump sounds worse than Hitler yet you can play Slick Willy Clinton's speeches and he sounds just like him.
Nowhere in that speech did Bill say that Mexicans are rapists, which is a pretty significant point.
Ted Cruz has the same positions that Bill expressed in that video.  So did Mitt Romney.  You didn't see the same kind of comparisons to Hitler for them as you do for Trump.

Furthermore, I humbly submit that 20 years ago mainstream Democrats were against same-sex marriage, and mainstream Republicans thought outlawing homosexuality was a reasonable decision that should be left to the states.  1996 was a long time ago.

Quote
Trump mocks Hillary's "missing" emails using the democrats attack and he's the bad guy? No proof but Democrats accuse Trump and Putin of being in cahoots.
Trump literally just asked a foreign country to provide opposition intel against his domestic political opponent.  This is not remotely the same as "the Democrats' attack."
« Last Edit: July 27, 2016, 05:16:38 pm by Spider-Dan » Logged

Spider-Dan
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« Reply #40 on: July 27, 2016, 05:07:01 pm »

If you want to change politics to bring up a 3rd party, that starts locally.  Get a libertarian-minded mayor...don't jump to the President.  You're bonkers if you think we're electing a non-2 party candidate at the Presidential level, unless there are rule changes that allow for tiered voting or something.  In addition, pushing for 3rd party candidates under the current system actually harms you ideals, because you're essentially kicking yourself out of the tent of the party that can win.  Bernie did exactly what he was supposed to.  He never had any legitimate shot of winning squat...ever.  And I voted for him!  But I voted for him to move the needle on the platform.
What the Bernie or Bust crew fails to realize is that for the last 7 years, the blueprint for partisan insurgency has happened right in front of their faces and they have learned nothing.

The Tea Party caused a government shutdown, took us to the brink of debt default, and has effectively held the GOP hostage for the last 6 years. They successfully executed a hostile takeover of the Republican Party by WINNING primaries, not by throwing a tantrum and voting third-party or staying home...  and it’s important to note that the Tea Party LOST both Presidential primaries (in 2012 and 2016).

In short: if the anti-establishment left invested half the time they spent protesting Hillary on beating Dianne Feinstein, Chuck Schumer, or Steny Hoyer in their primaries, they’d see a much more accommodating response from the Democratic establishment.

I actually want to repeal the 2nd amendment.
I don't think you even need to repeal it; it just needs to be enforced as written, specifically the part about a well-regulated militia.  In fact, I anticipate that if Hillary wins, within the next 10 years you will see SCOTUS significantly empower local and state gov'ts to pass very restrictive gun laws under exactly that logic.
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pondwater
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« Reply #41 on: July 27, 2016, 05:21:09 pm »

as weapons get more and more deadly.
What weapons are more deadly than they were in the 1950s? How are they more deadly? I'm a weapons guy and I don't see your logic. Sounds like media hype to me.

I don't think you even need to repeal it; it just needs to be enforced as written, specifically the part about a well-regulated militia.  In fact, I anticipate that if Hillary wins, within the next 10 years you will see SCOTUS significantly empower local and state gov'ts to pass very restrictive gun laws under exactly that logic.
Your understanding of the language is off. Maybe you should read this for further explanation.

http://www.lectlaw.com/files/gun01.htm

I don't expect it to change your mind because you're never wrong, just like most democrats. 
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Spider-Dan
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« Reply #42 on: July 27, 2016, 05:43:28 pm »

Your understanding of the language is off. Maybe you should read this for further explanation.
The fact that you are linking me to a multi-page essay on what that particular gentleman thinks the words "well-regulated militia" mean pretty much proves my point: the SCOTUS justices can simply say that well-regulated militia means exactly what it sounds like at first glance and declare that the 2nd Amendment does not apply to anyone not a member of a "well-regulated militia."

I mean, after declaring that corporations (i.e. legal entities created and destroyed at will, by fiat) have the inalienable right to free speech, and declaring that money is speech, it seems clear that the Supreme Court can define terms almost at their whim.  Remember, this is the same branch of government that said that "separate but equal" is explicitly constitutional, and then a few decades later said that "separate but equal" is impossible.
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Phishfan
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« Reply #43 on: July 27, 2016, 06:24:40 pm »

I don't think you even need to repeal it; it just needs to be enforced as written, specifically the part about a well-regulated militia.  In fact, I anticipate that if Hillary wins, within the next 10 years you will see SCOTUS significantly empower local and state gov'ts to pass very restrictive gun laws under exactly that logic.

I think you underestimate how many "well regulated militias" will come into existence.
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MyGodWearsAHoodie
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« Reply #44 on: July 27, 2016, 06:45:04 pm »

  Honestly...what the fuck?  It's like I just can't believe it,

Um Trump doing something bat shit crazy doesn't rise "I can't believe it" status for me anymore. 
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