Debit and credit cards.

[pondwater]

This morning I get a voice mail from my banks fraud dept. I call them back and they tell me that someone at a place called "Westin Grand" in Charlston, W Va tried to charge $2.25 on my debit card today. Category listed on the charge as medical or hospital. The bank recommended that I cancel the card and send out a new one in 5-7 days and I agreed. When I got home I pulled up my online account and noticed that there was a POS PIN transaction for $50 from a Walmart in Humble TX from yesterday. So I call my bank back and tell them about the charge from yesterday in TX and they tell me that I have to come in and file a dispute and that even though it is listed as a POS PIN transaction, that Walmart doesn't require a pin for anything $50 and under. She also told me that today's $2.25 transaction from W. VA was reversed and credited back to my account by whoever initiated the charges. WTF is going on? Shouldn't all transactions require a pin? Kind of defeats the purpose of a PIN number if you don't have to use it. Why would they (the crooks )reverse the $2.25 charge from today? This is just weird, anyone ever have anything like this happen?

[Phishfan]

I've been dinged before. I haven't been in a Wal-Mart in a long time but they use to require a PIN. That must have changed but I can tell you they are not the only location that does that. I think Wawa may be that way. It is somewhere I went fairly recently. As for the reversed charges, did she mean the vendor when she referred to whoever initiated the charges?

I hate they got you but at least your bank started finding it rather quickly.

[DaLittle B]

Sounds like you might have been hit by a skimmer somewhere,(your info could have been sold) and your card is cloned.

[CF DolFan]

It's been a few years but whenever we accepted CC/debit for less than $20 we didn't require ID or pin. If you questioned MC or Visa about a charge they would refund you and we'd never know. It isn't worth it to them to have to track it back down to see if the incorrect charge was worth it or not. I've noticed that the amount has gone up depending on where you are.

With that said ...I've been hacked a few times. One time my wife left her card at a gas pump and someone charged hundreds of dollars to Walmart. Wells Fargo immediately refunded the money and oddly so did Walmart (which we had to return). Wells cancelled the card and sent out a new one. When we asked if they would prosecute they said no that it wasn't worth the money. We also had someone buying Amazon from Ga but they refunded that as soon as we notified them too.

Fast forward a few years and SunTrust calls me on my cell phone to tell me someone in Mass is charging $200 at a time to a Food Lion. They ask me if it is me and I said no I just used it in Altamonte Springs, FL for lunch. Long story short they cancelled the card immediately and then waited a couple of months later to refunded me. They called me to tell me it was fraud but couldn't repay it until they verified it was fraud? This was the week of Christmas. Needless to say I no longer have SunTrust and have all my accounts through Wells Fargo. 

[pondwater]

I've been dinged before. I haven't been in a Wal-Mart in a long time but they use to require a PIN. That must have changed but I can tell you they are not the only location that does that. I think Wawa may be that way. It is somewhere I went fairly recently. As for the reversed charges, did she mean the vendor when she referred to whoever initiated the charges?

I hate they got you but at least your bank started finding it rather quickly.

Yeah, she said whoever initiated the charges reversed them. Why would they do that and why for only $2.25 when the day before they got $50 at walmart 450 miles away from where I live.

Sounds like you might have been hit by a skimmer somewhere,(your info could have been sold) and your card is cloned.

Wouldn't they still need my PIN? By skimmer, do you mean something built into the reader when I swipe my card? Or do you mean the lady at the Pizza Hut got my card info?

It's been a few years but whenever we accepted CC/debit for less than $20 we didn't require ID or pin. If you questioned MC or Visa about a charge they would refund you and we'd never know. It isn't worth it to them to have to track it back down to see if the incorrect charge was worth it or not. I've noticed that the amount has gone up depending on where you are.

With that said ...I've been hacked a few times. One time my wife left her card at a gas pump and someone charged hundreds of dollars to Walmart. Wells Fargo immediately refunded the money and oddly so did Walmart (which we had to return). Wells cancelled the card and sent out a new one. When we asked if they would prosecute they said no that it wasn't worth the money. We also had someone buying Amazon from Ga but they refunded that as soon as we notified them too.

Fast forward a few years and SunTrust calls me on my cell phone to tell me someone in Mass is charging $200 at a time to a Food Lion. They ask me if it is me and I said no I just used it in Altamonte Springs, FL for lunch. Long story short they cancelled the card immediately and then waited a couple of months later to refunded me. They called me to tell me it was fraud but couldn't repay it until they verified it was fraud? This was the week of Christmas. Needless to say I no longer have SunTrust and have all my accounts through Wells Fargo. 

It shouldn't be up to the vendor. The card companies should require a PIN on every transaction. I mean what's the point of having a PIN number if a crook can just generate a random number on a card and drive across country and get $50 at every Walmart he stops at.

[DaLittle B]

I'd imagine a physical skimmer probably more likely,on an ATM,or card machine,more likely than the lady behind the counter (I'm not an expert).Getting the pin number is a small camera pointed at the keypad when you put your pin number in,or an overlay over the keypad like the overlay on the card slot.

The police officer I talked to about it several months ago,was coy about the details.He mentioned people watching you over the shoulder as a possibility also.

I'd ask your bank to change your pin number as an extra layer of security,before you activate your new card.

Even though I have a "chip" card,most places here in town don't accept the Chip cards,and still using old machines...This is my night mare scenario,I grab the the slot and wiggle it,before I use ATM's.

[Spider-Dan]

Getting a new PIN would be redundant if you get a new card.  It's a completely different card number, so they would need to skim it again... and if they did, they'd capture your PIN at the same time.  (You can see this video for an example of how easy it is to install a skimmer.)

My recommendation is to only use your PIN at an actual, cash-withdrawing ATM.  For all other transactions, you should use the Check Card (VISA) function of your debit card, which is standard on nearly all ATM cards now.

[pondwater]

Getting a new PIN would be redundant if you get a new card.  It's a completely different card number, so they would need to skim it again... and if they did, they'd capture your PIN at the same time.  (You can see this video for an example of how easy it is to install a skimmer.)

My recommendation is to only use your PIN at an actual, cash-withdrawing ATM.  For all other transactions, you should use the Check Card (VISA) function of your debit card, which is standard on nearly all ATM cards now.

My debit card lets you choose debit or credit. Sometimes when I swipe it at the Kroger gas pump it just asks for a pin, unless I'm missing something I don't get a credit option. But by not using the pin except at ATMs, doesn't that pretty much make the pin useless. Like if anyone finds or clones your card they can just bypass the pin, which is the only actual protection the card has.

[dolphins4life]

I have never used a credit card in my life.  Just debit.

[Spider-Dan]

But by not using the pin except at ATMs, doesn't that pretty much make the pin useless. Like if anyone finds or clones your card they can just bypass the pin, which is the only actual protection the card has.

If you don't use the PIN, then the payment is processed through the VISA credit card network (instead of a debit card network like STAR).   VISA credit network transactions have the same protections as using a credit card; you would not be liable for the loss.

[Phishfan]

My debit card lets you choose debit or credit. Sometimes when I swipe it at the Kroger gas pump it just asks for a pin, unless I'm missing something I don't get a credit option.

I have not used this specific pump but locally most of the pumps here have you choose credit or debit before you swipe. If you immediately swipe the card at the pump it reads it is a debit and can automatically use that option.

[CF DolFan]

It shouldn't be up to the vendor. The card companies should require a PIN on every transaction. I mean what's the point of having a PIN number if a crook can just generate a random number on a card and drive across country and get $50 at every Walmart he stops at.

I understand what you are saying but the truth is they lose very little money and speed up sales by doing this. The easier you make it to pay the more sales you generate.

[Dave Gray]

I understand what you are saying but the truth is they lose very little money and speed up sales by doing this. The easier you make it to pay the more sales you generate.

This is what it comes down to.

These credit card companies make so much money, hand over fist, in people paying high interest rates, that it's worth it to allow (and just write off costs associated with) scamming.  The ease of using the card will more than make up for it.

[pondwater]

Yeah, but it's still silly to not require a pin on debit cards. If nothing else, leave it up to the card holder to opt in or out of requiring a pin for all transactions on the card. It only takes 2 secs to enter a 4 digit number.

I've seen several people I know on Facebook get their entire checking accounts cleaned out. I usually transfer any money that I don't anticipate using back into a linked savings account and the only way the crooks could get at that is at an ATM or to somehow transfer it back to my checking account. This shit pissed me off so bad that I just set 6 credit cards to text me whenever there is a transaction over $0.01. Did the same with my debit card except they didn't have a text option, only email option. Better than nothing I guess.

[masterfins]

Yeah, she said whoever initiated the charges reversed them. Why would they do that and why for only $2.25 when the day before they got $50 at walmart 450 miles away from where I live.

Westin is also a hotel chain, it could be it was swiped when someone checked in for possible incidentals, then when there were none it was reversed.