Will sports teams visits to the White House be coming to an end?

[CF DolFan]

No, a tax break for having health insurance does not "take away your free will."

I have to pay Medicare payroll taxes even if I have no intention of ever using it. This is not eliminating my free will, nor is it slavery.  It's a larger tax bill.

Payroll taxes are the result of having a job. There is a fine for not having insurance. No where have I seen you get fined for not having a job.  Nothing else required except breathing the air as an American citizen.  That's insane to me. Next they will fine people for not vaccinating, not buying into a separate retirement plan, not cleaning their house and so on. The list will be endless as there are so many things people "should" be doing but are not currently forced to do.  

[Fau Teixeira]

Next they will fine people for not vaccinating

You joke .. but i'm for it .. they should be the ones to pay for the public health crisis they're contributing to.

[Spider-Dan]

If you have no income, your net tax liability was still negative even with the mandate tax penalty.  I don't consider "But I should have gotten an even bigger refund!" to be a convincing argument.

But fundamentally, I don't understand why this "You're fining me for breathing!" sentiment is coming from a person who was, just yesterday, criticizing people for wanting "the government to take care of them," and advocating for greater personal responsibility.

Do you use public roads?  Do you eat food that was transported on public roads?  Do you use the government-funded water and sewer infrastructure?  Do you benefit from the protection offered by government law enforcement? If the answer to any of those questions is yes, on what basis can you claim being taxed "just for breathing" is unfair?  If you're living in America and not living a life 100% off the grid, "just breathing" already involves you taking advantage of countless government resources that must be paid for by someone.  (And if you're 100% off the grid, how are you filing taxes in the first place?)

[CF DolFan]

If you have no income, your net tax liability was still negative even with the mandate tax penalty.  I don't consider "But I should have gotten an even bigger refund!" to be a convincing argument.

But fundamentally, I don't understand why this "You're fining me for breathing!" sentiment is coming from a person who was, just yesterday, criticizing people for wanting "the government to take care of them," and advocating for greater personal responsibility.

Do you use public roads?  Do you eat food that was transported on public roads?  Do you use the government-funded water and sewer infrastructure?  Do you benefit from the protection offered by government law enforcement? If the answer to any of those questions is yes, on what basis can you claim being taxed "just for breathing" is unfair?

No one debates the government should supply infrastructure and that is what taxes are for. Being fined for not doing something gov people think is beneficial for them is very big brotherish. I should take care of the poor because I want to and not because I'm forced to do so. That's what is so funny to me. Typically it isn't the people who donate the most time and money already that think "all" people should be forced to do so.

[Spider-Dan]

No one debates the government should supply infrastructure and that is what taxes are for.

Libertarians certainly dispute that position.  They think all infrastructure should be private, including roads and sewers.

But even if we grant that: it is equally undebated that we shouldn't let people die on the street (rather than provide emergency care) if they don't have health insurance.  And someone has to pay for those services.  If you choose not to get health insurance, you are making a bet on your own future health that others will end up paying out if you are wrong.  And so you pay more in taxes to offset that.

[Spider-Dan]

Let me also say that an historian at the recent Davos conference pretty much summed up the problem with a charity-based approach:

https://twitter.com/nowthisnews/status/1090045108064579584

The money quote: "We can talk for a very long time about all these stupid philanthropy schemes. We can invite Bono once more. But, come on, we've got to be talking about taxes. That's it: taxes, taxes, taxes. All the rest is bullshit in my opinion."

If you think AOC is a nut, then you'd better start circling the wagons, because you're going to hear MORE of that kind of talk, not less.

[Cathal]

Man, we really need a lot more AOCs in office.

[masterfins]

I think the comments in this topic have gone far afield of the original poster's question.

[CF DolFan]

If you think AOC is a nut, then you'd better start circling the wagons, because you're going to hear MORE of that kind of talk, not less.

I don't believe that and you know why? The MSM makes fun of her including CNN. They are more coy about it than someone like FOX but many people, who dislike Trump, call out her craziness. LOL

[Fau Teixeira]

I don't believe that and you know why? The MSM makes fun of her including CNN. They are more coy about it than someone like FOX but many people, who dislike Trump, call out her craziness. LOL

and yet nobody can point at what exactly her craziness is .. i've asked .. i got the answer of "everything" and i gave an example and crickets
the establishment doesn't like her .. i can see why .. she undercut a good ol' boy.. and she'll keep doing that so the corporate democrats won't like her cause their paymasters will tell them not to.. the republicans won't like her cause a - she's a democrat and b - their political paymasters will tell them not to.
people like her policies .. overwhelmingly .. in the 70-80% range for democrats and 50-60% range for republicans.  medicare for all is wildly popular, marginal tax increases are wildly popular, publicly funded college is wildly popular. It's just that none of these are popular for the health insurance and pharmaceutical lobbies, the billionaire lobbies and the wall street lobbies.

[Tenshot13]

https://pics.me.me/new-york-socialist-alexandria-ocasio-cortez-charles-manson-family-values-36011484.png
I can back up my comment

[Cathal]

https://pics.me.me/new-york-socialist-alexandria-ocasio-cortez-charles-manson-family-values-36011484.png
I can back up my comment

Please do.

[Tenshot13]

^My only comment is she has crazy eyes.  I posted a picture showing that in jest.