Doctor dragged off United plane

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

On the topic of flights, Dolphins just got bumped by American Airlines.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/04/17/roughly-20-nfl-teams-facing-loss-of-chartered-flights/

[pondwater]

I was always under the impression that the team had it's own plane.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Doesn't make much sense for a team to own an airplane.  You only have around 10 flights per year and year round maintenance on a plane that big is very expensive. A basketball team that travels much more often and requires a much smaller plane, it would make sense.  Many owners of NFL teams own planes that they use but are way too small for the whole team.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Apparently united has another tactic to save money if the need to involuntarily bump multiple people they will only formally bump one member of a party and than offer the others a lowball to volunteer.  Let's say the need 2 seats, they bump the wife but not the husband.  The wife they need to pay the legal amount they then offer the husband the option of flying with his wife on the later flight or they can fly separate.  If he CHOOSES to take the later flight he won't get any compensation.  Being they would rather stick together they almost always say yes, and the airline gets a two for the price of one. 

Pretty slimy. 

[Pappy13]

In order for this course of action to work, the airline would have to publicly identify the doctor as the reason why the plane isn't leaving.

If you said the A/C can't leave until we have enough seats for the flight crew, it's obvious.

What you are advocating sounds a whole lot like, "Instead of getting the cops involved, why don't we let the people solve the problem themselves?"  If this doctor wasn't willing to get off the plane when uniformed police officers physically dragged him off, what exactly are you proposing will be different if the rest of the passengers are angry at him and there are no cops?

Just what you said, the passengers will be angry with the doctor and not with the airlines. I'm not suggesting physical confrontation, I'm just suggesting that you let the passengers focus their anger on the doctor who won't leave rather than on the cops trying to forceably remove him.

[Spider-Dan]

Just what you said, the passengers will be angry with the doctor and not with the airlines. I'm not suggesting physical confrontation, I'm just suggesting that you let the passengers focus their anger on the doctor who won't leave rather than on the cops trying to forceably remove him.

Let's talk a little more about the scenario you have suggested as an alternative to police involvement.  Ostensibly, the reason for United NOT to call the police is to avoid the bad optics of law enforcement forcibly removing a paying customer from the plane, right?  But in your alternative scenario, an angry mob (and the anger is explicitly intended) will be purposefully set upon this customer... with law enforcement INTENTIONALLY not being contacted.  Given that the passenger in this exact case we are already discussing had to be brutalized to be removed from the plane, it is highly unlikely that Smooth Talking (from angry people?) is going to produce a different result.  Therefore, we can expect one of two outcomes:

1) law enforcement has to be called to remove the passenger anyway
2) an angry mob physically assaults the passenger you have helpfully identified as The Sole Reason The Flight Is Delayed (and again, law enforcement is not present)

In short, you are advocating for Thunderdome... all because you think United offering, say, $500 more is just too far out of the realm of plausibility.  This is utter insanity.  Whatever bad optics result from police forcibly removing a paying customer from the plane will pale in comparison to the optics of a willfully-targeted mob beating an elderly doctor because he wanted to get home and treat his patients.

Pappy, your posts in this thread give the impression that this is part of a larger culture issue with airlines in general.  Your comments so far have, incredibly, been even worse than the picture United presented during this whole debacle.  You have shown little-to-no sympathy for the customer who merely expects the transportation he paid for, and honestly you have been outright disdainful.

[Pappy13]

You're assuming my intention is to have the doctor removed which it is not. The intention is to have someone give up their seat.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

You're assuming my intention is to have the doctor removed which it is not. The intention is to have someone give up their seat.

And the solution to that is to keep raising the offering price until someone says, yes it is worth $X dollars to miss the flight.

I agree with Spider, that your comments lack empathy for the flying public that simply expects the transportation they paid for.  This is consistent with my overall flying experience, airline employees seem to have the same level of regard for their paying customers as Comcast and the DMV.

[Phishfan]

As someone who just used a "low cost" airline this weekend I must say that I had no issues other than my flight being delayed an hour but I did not consider that a major problem.

[Spider-Dan]

You're assuming my intention is to have the doctor removed which it is not. The intention is to have someone give up their seat.

But your solution is basically for the airline to say, "Well, this guy wouldn't leave the plane, so we're just going to go outside for 10 minutes, and when we come back in, if there's not 1 less person on this plane then we'll just keep going back out until you all handle the problem."  And your logic behind this absurdity is that no one would blame the airline anymore.

It's difficult to believe you think this is a reasonable alternative to simply offering more money.

[Pappy13]

And the solution to that is to keep raising the offering price until someone says, yes it is worth $X dollars to miss the flight.

I wouldn't say that's the only solution. That's one solution.

I agree with Spider, that your comments lack empathy for the flying public that simply expects the transportation they paid for.

I empathize with them, I'm also a member of the flying public. I'm not an employee of Southwest, I'm a contractor for them, I have no flying privileges. I also understand that under a very small set of circumstances the flying public is delayed for one reason or another. If the delay is because they need to get someone to give up a seat, it happens. I'm not saying this should be employed at every turn, only that this could have been used in this situation with great effect in my opinion. It would have been FAR better than forceably removing the passenger.

This is consistent with my overall flying experience, airline employees seem to have the same level of regard for their paying customers as Comcast and the DMV.

This is patently untrue for Southwest. They care a great deal about their passengers and they often bend over backward to do the right thing for them. I have heard stories of what employees have done for customers and it's amazing. I have no way of knowing what United thinks of their customers but you couldn't be MORE offbase when it comes to Southwest. Here's a website for you. This is only the tip of the iceberg, I hear stories like these all the time.

https://www.southwestaircommunity.com/t5/Southwest-Stories/bg-p/stories

[Pappy13]

But your solution is basically for the airline to say, "Well, this guy wouldn't leave the plane, so we're just going to go outside for 10 minutes, and when we come back in, if there's not 1 less person on this plane then we'll just keep going back out until you all handle the problem."  And your logic behind this absurdity is that no one would blame the airline anymore.

Spider I'm trying to have an honest discussion with you, but your constantly twisting what I'm saying is getting tiresome. I NEVER said that no one would blame the airline, I'm sure they will still be upset with them, but they won't be taking video of the doctor being forcebly removed from the A/C either. That immediately made United the bad guy and rightfully so. Letting everyone sit for awhile on the tarmac yeah, I think most of them would be sitting there wondering why this doctor shouldn't give up his seat rather than make us all sit here? The 3 other paying passengers obliged, what's so special about this guy? I have commitments too, why should I give up my seat for him? He's no longer the innocent person being dragged from the plane, he's now the guy that is forcing everyone to be late because he won't do the right thing and give up his seat. I wasn't suggesting that the passengers resolve the problem, merely that they recognize it's the doctor that's forcing the issue and not the other way around.

It's difficult to believe you think this is a reasonable alternative to simply offering more money.

And you seem to believe that offering more money absolutely would have resolved the issue in short order. Actually to me it sounds a lot like the passengers were pretty dug in and were more interested in getting to their destination in short order than taking the money. It's quite possible that no one is going to give up their seat regardless of what you do, but the longer you are delayed the better that $800 starts to sound if you're not getting there on time anyway.

[Spider-Dan]

Spider I'm trying to have an honest discussion with you, but your constantly twisting what I'm saying is getting tiresome. I NEVER said that no one would blame the airline, I'm sure they will still be upset with them, but they won't be taking video of the doctor being forcebly removed from the A/C either.

Just what you said, the passengers will be angry with the doctor and not with the airlines. I'm not suggesting physical confrontation, I'm just suggesting that you let the passengers focus their anger on the doctor who won't leave rather than on the cops trying to forceably remove him.

QED.

I'm going to bold some more parts in the following quote because you don't seem to realize that you are repeatedly implying a particular outcome:

Letting everyone sit for awhile on the tarmac yeah, I think most of them would be sitting there wondering why this doctor shouldn't give up his seat rather than make us all sit here? The 3 other paying passengers obliged, what's so special about this guy? I have commitments too, why should I give up my seat for him? He's no longer the innocent person being dragged from the plane, he's now the guy that is forcing everyone to be late because he won't do the right thing and give up his seat. I wasn't suggesting that the passengers resolve the problem, merely that they recognize it's the doctor that's forcing the issue and not the other way around.

You previously said that your intention was not for the doctor to be removed, but for "someone to give up their seat," yet in the scenario YOU PROPOSE in this passage, the other passengers are openly questioning why they should give up their seat.  Do you not see the contradiction here?  What, specifically, is gained from having the other passengers "recognize" that one person is holding up the flight?  How does that lead to "someone" giving up their seat?

Your proposed workaround is a VERY thinly-veiled appeal to mob intimidation and/or violence.  You repeatedly cite anger and discontentment as integral components to your solution.

And you seem to believe that offering more money absolutely would have resolved the issue in short order.

Yes, I am inclined to believe that offering a group of people increasing sums of money is an effective way to get someone to accept said money.

But even if no one accepted: if United had offered, say, $2000, then people like me wouldn't have accused them of lowballing under the federal limit.  Had that been the case, I think you would have seen a lot fewer people criticizing United and a lot more people criticizing the cops.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

But even if no one accepted: if United had offered, say, $2000, then people like me wouldn't have accused them of lowballing under the federal limit.  Had that been the case, I think you would have seen a lot fewer people criticizing United and a lot more people criticizing the cops.

Delta has raised their max to $9500.  If Delta ever kicks someone off a plane after offering that sum, (which will be rare) reaction will be of shock nobody took the offer.