The new NBA era: players as GMs

[Spider-Dan]

There's a lot of talk about how Durant stacked the odds by going to a championship-caliber team.  But even if you consider that Curry and Durant are locks for the Hall of Fame, and even if you grant that there are two more HOFers somewhere on the Warriors, that's the same number of HOFers that were on Bird's Celtics (Bird, McHale, Parish, DJ)... and that's not including a late-career Bill Walton.

So why are players criticized for playing on a team that's no less stacked than some of the '80s teams?  Answer: because the players have figured out that they are better GMs than most of the GMs.

It wasn't Pat Riley that sold LBJ and Bosh on Miami, it was Wade.
It wasn't [whoever the hell is GM in Cleveland] that put together the Cavs, it was LeBron.  And it wasn't the GM who replaced Blatt with Lue, and it wasn't the GM who decided to keep Tristan Thompson, who was key in their title last year.  That was all LeBron.
And it wasn't Bob Myers (Warriors' GM) who brought KD to Oakland.  That was Draymond and Steph.

Unless you are the Spurs, it's the players who are building championship teams right now.  I don't think it's a coincidence that people raise all sorts of objections to these great teams when it's labor (instead of management) calling their own shots.

[Baba Booey]

It's ruined the sport. Non-competitive games throughout the year and playoffs. It's less than 12 hours after this season ended and next year you can write in pen Golden St vs Cleveland again in next years finals. That's not good for business. There is no realistic offseason move or moves that can change that or stop that from happening. No team can add a piece or two (realistically with the salary cap in place) that will upset that apple-cart.

There is literally no reason to watch these games as everyone knows who is going to win. This will in time (it hasn't yet but it will) catch up with the league.

[Phishfan]

I don't think the current climate is good for the NBA but that is just a personal opinion. I don't fault Golden State for the team they have built, it is fair under the rules of the game. I personally just have no interest in what the NBA is offering right now. I watched less than the length of one game combined of the finals this year because I knew the outcome (barring injury) since Durant signed.

As for players taking the role of GM, which is the main topic, we have seen this development for a while. A top level NBA player has a lot more power than players in other sports based on simple math (the number of players in the game and the effect a single one can have). That is just the nature of the sport.

[Sunstroke]

Aside from keeping an eye on what my Suns are doing (answer: not much), I really have no interest in the NBA these days. As far as building the super teams...that's part of it, I suppose, but mostly it's just that the game isn't appealing to me.

[Spider-Dan]

I just don't hear anyone saying how terrible the '80s were because the Lakers and Celtics were dominating.  In fact, rather the opposite: Magic and Bird are repeatedly referred to as the league's saviors.

Seems like the main difference is that the players are orchestrating it now instead of the GMs.

[Phishfan]

Being a Laker fan, you will never hear me complain about that era. 

I think an extension of your player/GM thing is the advent of free agency, which isn't a bad thing. Previously players were stuck with teams and I don't think that is right (although I am nostalgic on the days of seeing stars stay in one place). The one downside, the NBA draft is basically useless. Small market teams lose their upcoming players as soon as contracts come up and big market teams just look for already established players.

[Spider-Dan]

Well, it isn't just free agency, or even the salary cap; the real key is max  player contracts. There's no way you would be able to get close to a superteam if players could be paid their actual market value, but management is dumb and has to be forcibly prevented from giving a 500 million dollar contact to players like DeMarcus Cousins.

[Sunstroke]

...management is dumb and has to be forcibly prevented from giving a 500 million dollar contact to players like DeMarcus Cousins.

Aw, come on...Boogie is worth every penny!! 

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

So let me get this straight a superstar player can either (1) try to get max salary with no regard if his contract prevents the team from being able to build a supporting cast or (2) take less money so that the team can afford a few other superstar players that care more about winning than getting every possible nickel.  In MLB and NFL it is extremely rare for a player to choose option 2, although Brady does that to a limited extent.  IMHO I respect some one that cares more about being on a winning team than one who would prefer the extra cash.

[Baba Booey]

I just don't hear anyone saying how terrible the '80s were because the Lakers and Celtics were dominating.  In fact, rather the opposite: Magic and Bird are repeatedly referred to as the league's saviors.

Seems like the main difference is that the players are orchestrating it now instead of the GMs.

Big difference is those teams had tough battles inside their conference to get to the finals. Boston was pushed by Philly, Detroit, Atlanta. LA was pushed by Houston among others in the west. They didn't have cakewalks to the Finals. Playoff games had meaning. The regular season games had meaning! The eastern conference is a joke to the point Cleveland didn't care if they had home court advantage and didn't try to get it. Golden St didn't lose 1 playoff game in playoffs till the finals. The outcomes are predictable, the games have zero juice, its boring and dull.

LA and Boston built their dynasty's through the draft and trades. Where the teams had to give something to land a player.  The "super-teams" we see today aren't that. They are players saying I don't want the pressure to have to win on my own or want to put in the time to have a team built up to be a contender. Let me take less money, have less responsibility and pressure, and join a team where its guaranteed I will win. To me that is the cowards way out and why guys from this generation will never be seen in the same light as the all time greats that came before. Plus it kills the sport.

Durant was on a team that was almost in the Finals last year. His team was loaded the reason they didn't close out Golden State once up 3-1 on them is because of him and he choked. Instead of saying lets come back and get them next year(like a competitor would) he took the easy way out and joined a 73 win team and got a ring the easy way.  Wasn't like Durant was running away from a bad team, he was on a GREAT team that won 55 games and was up 3 games to 1 on Golden St in the western conference finals and then HE CHOKED! He took the easy way out. If Durant was on the Knicks a last place team and said I want a chance to win, it would be somewhat understandable what he did. But that wasn't his situation. It also wasn't Lebron's either when he bolted to Miami so he is no better in my book.

It kills the sport, its no fun. 3/4 of NBA cities have teams that know they have zero shot to even be competitive let alone good.  That will kill the fan base in cities slowly over time. The NBA is just predictable and that isn't good for long-term health.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Difference between now and basketball's hay day is now too many teams make the playoffs.  In NFL and MLB the regular season matters.  In NBA and NHL you just have to be average or better to make the playoffs.

[Baba Booey]

Difference between now and basketball's hay day is now too many teams make the playoffs.  In NFL and MLB the regular season matters.  In NBA and NHL you just have to be average or better to make the playoffs.

There is no reason to watch either sport in the regular season. The NBA especially where now guys (the stars) taking random nights off is the norm because they are "tired". Wusses!

[Spider-Dan]

Big difference is those teams had tough battles inside their conference to get to the finals. Boston was pushed by Philly, Detroit, Atlanta. LA was pushed by Houston among others in the west. They didn't have cakewalks to the Finals.

From 1984-1989, PHI won exactly two playoff series.  Both were in the first round.
During the entire '80s, ATL never made it past the second round.
HOU is the only Western Conference team you can cite, as LAL won the WC 8 times during the '80s.  They played a grand total of TWO Game 7s in the Western Conference over the entire decade (both in '88).  Meanwhile, they swept their opponent in eleven different series, and lost only 1 game an additional seven times.  The Western Conference was not competitive in the '80s.  At all.

Even if you are super generous and include the Rockets as a relevant team in the '80s, that means that five teams made the Finals during that decade.  At no point were more than 3 of them any good.  How is that any better than Warriors/Cavs/Spurs now?  Are we really supposed to believe that 'Nique's Hawks were a quality team, but the CP3/Blake/DJ Clippers or the Harden Rockets or the KD/Russ Thunder have not been?

The only difference between the '80/'90s and today is that people look back on teams back then that never won anything with one HOFer (e.g. ATL, POR, PHX, IND, NYK, SEA) and consider them Tough Competition.  But when it comes to today, any team that hasn't won a title (and even some that have!) is completely irrelevant and not worth mentioning.  It's an absurd double standard.

Golden St didn't lose 1 playoff game in playoffs till the finals. The outcomes are predictable, the games have zero juice, its boring and dull.

GS was down 3-1 last year against OKC (and won), then up 3-1 against CLE (and lost).  That is not boring and predictable.

The Sixers lost one game in the '83 playoffs.  Did that mean the entire league was boring and dull then, too?  One year is one year.

LA and Boston built their dynasty's through the draft and trades. Where the teams had to give something to land a player.

All of LA and Boston's "building" occurred prior to the salary cap era.
The salary cap is a far more significant restriction than anything they faced.

Durant was on a team that was almost in the Finals last year. His team was loaded the reason they didn't close out Golden State once up 3-1 on them is because of him and he choked. Instead of saying lets come back and get them next year(like a competitor would) he took the easy way out and joined a 73 win team and got a ring the easy way.

Yeah, I remember when Gary Payton and Karl Malone joined a team 1 year removed from a title to get a ring "the easy way."
I also remember when LeBron went to Miami with Bosh to join Wade and win a ring "the easy way."  And then when he went to Cleveland with Kyrie and Kevin Love to win "the easy way."
Sometimes "the easy way" isn't quite so easy. 

[Phishfan]

It kills the sport, its no fun. 3/4 of NBA cities have teams that know they have zero shot to even be competitive let alone good.  That will kill the fan base in cities slowly over time. The NBA is just predictable and that isn't good for long-term health.

I just had a conversation with the guy at the gas station yesterday about how the Orlando City Soccer Club and its fans have overtaken the Orlando Magic and the reasons behind it.

[Phishfan]

Difference between now and basketball's hay day is now too many teams make the playoffs.  In NFL and MLB the regular season matters.  In NBA and NHL you just have to be average or better to make the playoffs.

But there is a big difference between the leagues in that it is not uncommon in the NHL for an 8 seed to knock off a 1 seed. Playoff hockey is the great equalizer and ranks up there as one of the great sporting events of the year.