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Author Topic: Men taking over Women's sports  (Read 1605 times)
Fau Teixeira
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« Reply #60 on: April 15, 2018, 05:10:13 pm »

The only real caveat i have here, is that if a Transgender man is prohibited from competing against men and forced by whatever league, association, state or whatnot to compete in the womens division, then i have no problem with it as it isn't the choice of the competitor.
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Dolphster
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« Reply #61 on: April 17, 2018, 10:30:40 am »

Let's just make a Weirdo Division for each sport and be done with it. 
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CF DolFan
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« Reply #62 on: June 11, 2018, 10:21:54 am »

So .... The Connecticut transgender "girl" was beaten at this year's state meet by you guessed it ... another transgender who competed as a boy last year. They blew out the others so again I ask ... why don't they have their own division? 

https://www.dailywire.com/news/31605/watch-two-transgenders-blow-out-girls-state-meet-hank-berrien
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MyGodWearsAHoodie
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« Reply #63 on: June 11, 2018, 02:37:40 pm »

This is getting out of hand.  These boys didn't have a sex change.  They didn't undergo any hormone therapy, they just signed up for a division that they could dominate unfairly.  They are BOYS not girls.   
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« Reply #64 on: June 11, 2018, 09:13:28 pm »

To me it's a matter of how you view not only society but the law.

Should we rule on "what I am" vs. "what I feel."

Try and understand I'm not out to hurt people of another sexuality nor do I want to see anyone persecuted.

Society was build on laws... laws against killing, laws against stealing, what is, vs. what I feel... and if you rule on "what I feel," that's a whole new set of ground rules.

I AM certain things but I can claim to feel like anything I want.  Regardless of sexual/racial lines,  Regardless of really anything...


I am a mentally ill person, but I don't always feel like one,

Decide for yourselves...  it's a debate worth having as we go forward
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Dave Gray
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« Reply #65 on: June 12, 2018, 11:22:59 am »

^ I certainly understand that point of view and I used to share it.  But I changed my mind over the years after listening to scientists talk about gender.  I made the mistake of equating sex to gender.  They are different words that mean different things.

Gender is made up of a lot of factors -- body chemistry, brain chemistry, physical body, and social norms all play into it.

It's easier to make it a black/white issue where if you have a dick, you're a dude....I get it.  But it's a more gray, nuanced world than that, from the science of it.
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« Reply #66 on: June 12, 2018, 11:30:33 am »

^ I certainly understand that point of view and I used to share it.  But I changed my mind over the years after listening to scientists talk about gender.  I made the mistake of equating sex to gender.  They are different words that mean different things.

Gender is made up of a lot of factors -- body chemistry, brain chemistry, physical body, and social norms all play into it.

It's easier to make it a black/white issue where if you have a dick, you're a dude....I get it.  But it's a more gray, nuanced world than that, from the science of it.

Then maybe we should examine what terms are used when discussing the issue, because if the guy has a dick, and testosterone flowing through his body chemistry, "He" should not be competing against women.

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« Reply #67 on: June 12, 2018, 11:48:24 am »

Then maybe we should examine what terms are used when discussing the issue, because if the guy has a dick, and testosterone flowing through his body chemistry, "He" should not be competing against women.

I don't necessarily disagree with that statement about sports.  In sports, in general, we want to create a level playing field and this doesn't do that -- so I'm good there.  But in the broader sense of "are you what you feel like or are you what you look like?", there is a deeper understanding needed.
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« Reply #68 on: June 12, 2018, 12:54:10 pm »

^ I certainly understand that point of view and I used to share it.  But I changed my mind over the years after listening to scientists talk about gender.  I made the mistake of equating sex to gender.  They are different words that mean different things.

Gender is made up of a lot of factors -- body chemistry, brain chemistry, physical body, and social norms all play into it.

It's easier to make it a black/white issue where if you have a dick, you're a dude....I get it.  But it's a more gray, nuanced world than that, from the science of it.

I get there is a place for nuance in discussing gender.  But this is pretty instance is black and white. 
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Phishfan
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« Reply #69 on: June 12, 2018, 01:14:18 pm »

The water just got muddy and I am lost. Are they women with dicks or men with boobs?
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« Reply #70 on: June 12, 2018, 02:43:57 pm »

The water just got muddy and I am lost. Are they women with dicks or men with boobs?

They were biological boys, with no surgery or hormone therapy who simply checked a different box on the race registration form so they could race vs the girls, instead of other boys.  Connecticut has the most permissive transgender law on the books. No operation needed, just fill out a form.
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« Reply #71 on: June 12, 2018, 03:42:48 pm »

I don't necessarily disagree with that statement about sports.  In sports, in general, we want to create a level playing field and this doesn't do that -- so I'm good there.  But in the broader sense of "are you what you feel like or are you what you look like?", there is a deeper understanding needed.

They were biological boys, with no surgery or hormone therapy who simply checked a different box on the race registration form so they could race vs the girls, instead of other boys.  Connecticut has the most permissive transgender law on the books. No operation needed, just fill out a form.

I'm all for allowing people to identify as whatever they want to identify as in their life. However, when it comes to competitive sports, fair play for all competitors outweighs a single individual's need to be considered something that they aren't.

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« Reply #72 on: June 12, 2018, 04:18:44 pm »

I don't necessarily disagree with that statement about sports.  In sports, in general, we want to create a level playing field and this doesn't do that -- so I'm good there.  But in the broader sense of "are you what you feel like or are you what you look like?", there is a deeper understanding needed.
I used to think that way too but have gone in the opposite direction as I've gotten older.  The funny thing to me is ... outside of the boy /girl thing no one has issue with calling it mental issue if a person thinks they are something or someone else. To many of us, if you have the male chromosomes you are are a male no matter how many times you clack you shoes together and wish you weren't. Transgenders have a higher suicide rate even after having surgery and hormone therapies which to me ... kind of backs up the mental thing. I do realize in some cases a person has both or it is mixed up. and that is not what I am referring to.
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Dave Gray
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« Reply #73 on: June 12, 2018, 04:24:21 pm »

outside of the boy /girl thing

That's a big distinction.  Boy/Girl is body chemistry, physical parts (as well as brain chemistry and societal).  Other things don't have so many variables most of the time.

Even race isn't as simple as just melanin.  You could be a black dude who has a melanin deficiency yet you wouldn't necessarily be a white dude...or would you?
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« Reply #74 on: June 12, 2018, 05:34:43 pm »

Transgenders have a higher suicide rate even after having surgery and hormone therapies which to me ... kind of backs up the mental thing.

not necessarily... persecuted people have a higher suicide rate than the general population.

E.g. there was an elevated rate of suicide inside Japanese intermittent camps.  Suicide was common in nazi death camps and pow camps (committed by doing something that was known to get you shot, like running toward the fence)  It is not shocking that people who are unfairly labeled as mentally insane by much of the population are frequently driven to suicide. 
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