Who was the best coach not named Don Shula?

[dolphins4life]

I titled this thread like this to avoid the debate about whether Shula should be mentioned (I say no, but I understand I am likely in the minority).

Jimmy Johnson
Dave Wannestedt
Jim Bates
Nick Saban
Cam Cameron
Tony Sparano
Todd Bowles
Joe Philbin
Adam Gase

Who would you pick?

I need time to think

[Spider-Dan]

JJ, though I think his strength lied more in talent assessment.

And you missed Dan Campbell.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

What?  Why isn't George Wilson in this discussion?

[Phishfan]

JJ, though I think his strength lied more in talent assessment.

I think this is overblown because he found some later round picks, The name John Avery always rings out in my mind as people tout Johnson's great assessment skills (and I always apologize to Brian when I bring it up).

I'm on the bandwagon and am jumping on Gates early.

[CF DolFan]

I think this is overblown because he found some later round picks, The name John Avery always rings out in my mind as people tout Johnson's great assessment skills (and I always apologize to Brian when I bring it up).

I'm on the bandwagon and am jumping on Gates early.

He found a first ballot HOfer. That's a pretty big deal IMO.

I know he is hated in Miami but I still think Saban was the best coach we have had. It will be nice in a few years when we are able to assess Adam Gase a little more.

[Spider-Dan]

I think this is overblown because he found some later round picks, The name John Avery always rings out in my mind as people tout Johnson's great assessment skills (and I always apologize to Brian when I bring it up).

Jason Taylor, Zach Thomas, Sam Madison, Patrick Surtain, Brock Marion, Olindo Mare.  Any coach not named Shula won't match half of that list.

No one bats 1.000, but JJ did a pretty good job.

I know he is hated in Miami but I still think Saban was the best coach we have had.

Setting aside Alabama and Daunte Culpepper: Nick Saban had one 9-7 season and one 6-10 season.  His highest finish was an 8 seed.  He left the talent cupboard with cobwebs and an old can of stew.

Looking strictly at results, I would rate Saban as behind JJ, Wanny, Sparano, and Gase.

[Phishfan]

I admit Johnson found some diamonds in the rough, but those later round picks are dumb luck as they can go either way and happened to work out. His early picks (round 1-3) were often blown. In 1996 he drafted Dorian Brew in round 3. Who the hell is that guy? 1997 was Yatil Green in round 1 (yes I know the injury argument but I'm not sure he was going to be worthy anyway so we will never know). In 1998 it was John Avery in the first round (I already apologized). In 1999 our second rounder (and first pick that draft) was J.J. Johnson. I can name others in the first three rounds as well that either never made the active roster or were simply bodies for a couple years. The first three rounds should be your bread and butter and he missed on a lot of them while getting lucky with some great later round picks.

[Dave Gray]

Gotta be JJ, I think.

He drafted pretty superbly and built a defense that we used for a decade+.

[masterfins]

Not including the fill in HC's (and I hate to include Cameron because he only had a single year) here's my list:

1) JJ
2) Gase (I believe he will leapfrog JJ with time)
3) Sparano
4) George Wilson (giving him a big break since it was early expansion years)
5) Cameron
6) Saban
7) Wanny
Philbin

My rankings were based on what the team make-up was when they arrived, what they accomplished while here, and what they left to the future coach.  Most importantly I graded by what team was left for the future coach, which is why the last three ranked as low as they did.  Granted I admit I know nothing about the Wilson Era..


BTW D4L, I don't think you are in the minority not thinking Shula was the best, I think you ARE the minority.

[Sunstroke]

Top 5, best to worst...um...5th best:

1) Jimmy Johnson  -  How is this even a question?
2) Adam Gase  -  I know he's just getting started, but I've been very impressed.
3) Dave Wannstedt's Mustache  -  Glorious and full...if there was only a Facial Hair Super Bowl...
4) Tony Sparano  -  Blue collar who should have stayed an assistant, but it was fun for 4 years, listening to folks call him Tony Soprano.
5) The Rest of Dave Wannstedt  -  Not a bad coach, and at this point of the rankings, the bar is pretty low.

[Spider-Dan]

I admit Johnson found some diamonds in the rough, but those later round picks are dumb luck as they can go either way and happened to work out. His early picks (round 1-3) were often blown.

I could not disagree more.  Jim Irsay is not a genius for drafting Peyton Manning and Andrew Luck.

The difference between a good evaluator of talent and a bad one is what you do in the middle-late rounds.  JJ discovered multiple Pro Bowlers in those rounds, both in DAL and MIA.  If you want to say he's the "luckiest" coach in the world, then fine... but it's not like any other coach we are comparing him to made great early-round picks, either.  So are we just discarding a handful of the best defenders in Dolphin history because they don't count?

I mean, it's easy to call out John Avery, but JJ didn't pass on Aaron Rodgers, nor did he draft Jamar Fletcher, Jason Allen, Ted Ginn, or Dion Jordan.  So which coach are we comparing him to?

P.S. You cited "round 1-3" as your important picks.  Taylor, Madison, Surtain were all round 2 or 3; three All-Pros still puts JJ over any other coach easily.

[Phishfan]

I could not disagree more.  Jim Irsay is not a genius for drafting Peyton Manning and Andrew Luck.

Well I will disagree and say he was a genius for not drafting Ryan Leaf or RG3  it works two ways.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Well I will disagree and say he was a genius for not drafting Ryan Leaf or RG3  it works two ways.

I have to agree with that. Yeah it is easy to say now Manning was the right choice, but plenty of people would have gone with Leaf.  And drafting a crap player is far worse than passing on a great one.

[Dolphster]

I'm admittedly biased because I love me some JJ.  But yeah, JJ. 

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Might be a little early to be giving Gase this much love.  Yeah he had a good first year.  But I was more impressed with Sapronos year one than Gase.  Best year to year improvement and crafty enough to out game plan BB.

Don't read this as me thinking Gase is weak, just not enough time to judge.