Nazis and the upper limit of free speech

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

I think Trump says very stupid things but his actions throughout his life support the theory he isn't a racist. I think all people have some sort of racist view on certain things but they don't know that makes them racist. If so we are all racists.  Actions speak louder than words ... and that can go either way.

You mean like refusing to rent to minorities as a landlord and having very few minorities in senior management positions either in his buisness or administration.  You mean those actions refute the idea he is racist.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Or is it the fact that Trump has only pardoned one person since taking office....someone whose crime was racial profiling?  Is that the conduct that leads you to believe he is not racist?  Really trying to understand that statement. 

[Spider-Dan]

It does bear repeating that Trump signed a consent decree with the DOJ due to his racial profiling and exclusion of minorities from property he owned.

But if you can excuse Trump overtly saying a federal judge should be disqualified from performing his job based solely on his race, excusing Trump's history of racism just gets easier from that point on.

[pondwater]

It does bear repeating that Trump signed a consent decree with the DOJ due to his racial profiling and exclusion of minorities from property he owned.

But if you can excuse Trump overtly saying a federal judge should be disqualified from performing his job based solely on his race, excusing Trump's history of racism just gets easier from that point on.

1239 Days - 6 Hours - 58 Minutes to go. Suck it up cupcake!

[Cathal]

1239 Days - 6 Hours - 58 Minutes to go. Suck it up cupcake!

This is the problem. There is clear evidence that this man is not fit for office, and should be removed immediately. Yet, people are in denial and will just block that evidence because they can't see that they made a mistake.

Just admit it. It's the first step in the healing process. 

[Spider-Dan]

It is a lot easier to understand the motivation of (continuing) Trump supporters if you view everything through the lens of winning and losing... ironically (or perhaps not), just as Trump does.  Many "conservatives" care more about defeating liberals than they do about any individual policy position.  Or, as I have mentioned previously:

Today's conservatism is the opposite of what liberals want today: updated daily.

This is why "Hillary lost, get over it" is such a frequent rejoinder from Trump supporters.  Trump's policies don't matter; Trump's actions are unimportant. What matters is that They Won and You Lost.

I think this is also why we are seeing this kind of reaction from the right to armed Nazis.  10 years ago, the idea of supporters of the Confederate Flag who were "just protecting Southern heritage" actually walking next to people flying literal Nazi swastika flags would have been unbelievable.  But now, the supporters of the Confederacy realize that those Nazis also back their guy.  Therefore, they are better than the people who do not back their guy.  Winning vs. losing.

[pondwater]

This is why "Hillary lost, get over it" is such a frequent rejoinder from Trump supporters.  Trump's policies don't matter; Trump's actions are unimportant. What matters is that They Won and You Lost.

Seems to me that when Obama won we heard a lot of "Obama won, get over it" and "Elections have consequences". I'm sure that we could go through the archives here and find the same type posts.

I think this is also why we are seeing this kind of reaction from the right to armed Nazis.  10 years ago, the idea of supporters of the Confederate Flag who were "just protecting Southern heritage" actually walking next to people flying literal Nazi swastika flags would have been unbelievable.  But now, the supporters of the Confederacy realize that those Nazis also back their guy.  Therefore, they are better than the people who do not back their guy.  Winning vs. losing.

I'm pretty sure that 10 years ago we wouldn't have believed that a gang of thugs with masks would be shouting "No constitution, no USA at all" while assaulting people in broad daylight. Again, enjoy the next 1238 days.

[Spider-Dan]

Seems to me that when Obama won we heard a lot of "Obama won, get over it" and "Elections have consequences". I'm sure that we could go through the archives here and find the same type posts.

I'm not saying you can't be pleased with your victory.  I'm saying that "We won" is not a substitute for defense of your candidate's terrible policy.

I'm happy to defend (most of) Obama's policy positions and achievements on the merits... and the ones I am least comfortable defending are instances where I thought he wasn't liberal enough (an opinion you would assuredly disagree with).  In contrast, when asked to defend Trump's positions, you want to brag about his victory instead.

That's the difference.

[Cathal]

You're right Spider. It really is just a game of who won and who lost. Instead of actually caring that the country is in a downward spiral because of their guy, they put party above everything. Sad!

[pondwater]

I'm not saying you can't be pleased with your victory.  I'm saying that "We won" is not a substitute for defense of your candidate's terrible policy.

I'm happy to defend (most of) Obama's policy positions and achievements on the merits... and the ones I am least comfortable defending are instances where I thought he wasn't liberal enough (an opinion you would assuredly disagree with).  In contrast, when asked to defend Trump's positions, you want to brag about his victory instead.

That's the difference.

Are you mentally challenged? I've stated several times that he's not my candidate and I didn't vote for him. In my opinion he's better than Hillary. If I had my choice I would have voted for Ron or Rand Paul.

So I'm not bragging about his victory. I'm simply pointing out the fact that he is the POTUS for the next 1238 days. Complaining about it everyday isn't going to change that fact. Short of that you will get Pence, who you will subsequently also call a racist and complain about him until the term is up. It really is a no win situation with you people.

[Spider-Dan]

You claim he's "not your candidate" but you continually defend him, so I am judging by your actions.

As I said before: I'm technically not a Democrat, but I don't use that as some sort of semantic shield to dodge claims that I'm defending "my party."  Such objections are a waste of everyone's time; no one cares if I'm technically registered as a Democrat or if you technically voted for Trump.  We make our positions clear by the policy arguments that we offer and defend.

[pondwater]

You claim he's "not your candidate" but you continually defend him, so I am judging by your actions.

As I said before: I'm technically not a Democrat, but I don't use that as some sort of semantic shield to dodge claims that I'm defending "my party."  Such objections are a waste of everyone's time; no one cares if I'm technically registered as a Democrat or if you technically voted for Trump.  We make our positions clear by the policy arguments that we offer and defend.

It's not as much defending Trump as it is disagreeing with the left for its continuous non stop silly bullshit. We would be having the same conversation if Pence was POTUS. It's funny, when Obama was president all the liberals were screaming that it's all Bush's fault and Obama inherited all the problems. But according to you guys it doesn't work the same way for Trump. He didn't inherit any problems, he caused them all.

So no, don't try to pile Trump on me. He's not my candidate, I didn't vote for him, and I don't agree with Republicans on everything, so I don't defend them on everything. I just happen to agree with them MORE than I do the Democrats. And the more of this shit that goes on, the more I want nothing to do with democrats. Keep it up and maybe you can alienate the entire country...

[Spider-Dan]

It's not as much defending Trump as it is disagreeing with the left for its continuous non stop silly bullshit.

Otherwise known as the "anti-anti-Trump" position.

The real world result of your position is that when you are forced to choose sides between a) agreeing with Democratic attacks on Trump and b) defending Trump, you invariably choose the latter because at least he's not a Democrat.  I have no idea why you think anyone should consider the distinction between that and a "Trump supporter" to be meaningful.

[Phishfan]

OK. We are locked down. We have definitely strayed away from Free Speech, Nazis, and the like and have fallen into our traditional "You support Trump, no I don't" back and forth.