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Author Topic: Gase/Ross and player protests  (Read 968 times)
Spider-Dan
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« Reply #15 on: October 12, 2017, 05:41:10 pm »

I did say they generate plenty of attention outside of the game: on cable news, social media, etc.  My point was that those who say "I just want to watch a football game without all of this stuff about politics" can easily do so, as the actual game itself is almost entirely unaffected.

That's why the Dolphins' recent action won't make a difference.  Having the players stay out of sight during the anthem won't change anything, as those criticizing the players don't actually care about standing vs. kneeling; they care about players using the anthem as a vehicle to protest an issue the critics consider illegitimate.  I think all of us can agree that players who stand during the anthem, but in the locker room, will be criticized just as much as those kneeling on the field are today.  Again, it was never about kneeling.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2017, 05:47:42 pm by Spider-Dan » Logged

pondwater
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« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2017, 05:50:11 pm »

BLM protesters are on their own time and their own dime.  So was Jemele Hill when she was on Twitter.  It doesn't matter where or when they do it, it's always the wrong place and the wrong time.

The only effective way to placate those who object to protests is for protesters to shut up and go home.  This has always been the case.
Or maybe no one gives a shit except a small but vocal minority of the population. BLM protesters are free to protest. However, I don't think that blocking traffic and shouting to "fry 'em like bacon" lends itself to winning people over to hear their message. Especially people that don't give a shit to begin with.

As far as Jemele Hill goes. She used social media to encourage people to boycott NFL/advertisers. Her employer ESPN has a very lucrative partnership with the NFL and their advertisers. Not to mention that this is her second time in violation of ESPN's social media guidelines in 2 months. Furthermore, after her first fuck up last month. ESPN chief John Skipper sent a memo that said "ESPN is about sports" and that it is "not a political organization." So it really highlights the fact that most people don't want politics in their sports. Maybe she should chose between being a sports bimbo or a politician. Because trying to be both isn't going to turn out good for her in the long run.

Like I said earlier, no one gives a shit. Given that fact, the only options the social justice warriors have is to try and force people to give a shit by inconveniencing and/or annoying them. When you force things on people your going to get blowback. Deal with the blowback or STFU and play your child's game and collect your vastly overpaid salary. It's a simple life choice!
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Spider-Dan
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« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2017, 05:56:32 pm »

Like I said earlier, no one gives a shit. Given that fact, the only options the social justice warriors have is to try and force people to give a shit by inconveniencing and/or annoying them. When you force things on people your going to get blowback.
You have just described both the reason why people protest (because "no one gives a shit") and the goal of nonviolent civil disobedience (to "try and force people to give a shit" by inconveniencing them with your protests).
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pondwater
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« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2017, 06:01:03 pm »

I did say they generate plenty of attention outside of the game: on cable news, social media, etc.  My point was that those who say "I just want to watch a football game without all of this stuff about politics" can easily do so, as the actual game itself is almost entirely unaffected.

That's why the Dolphins' recent action won't make a difference.  Having the players stay out of sight during the anthem won't change anything, as those criticizing the players don't actually care about standing vs. kneeling; they care about players using the anthem as a vehicle to protest an issue the critics consider illegitimate.  I think all of us can agree that players who stand during the anthem, but in the locker room, will be criticized just as much as those kneeling on the field are today.  Again, it was never about kneeling.
So if it was never about kneeling, then why are they kneeling?

I took a shower, but it wasn't about showering. I ate a sandwich, but it wasn't about eating. I jacked off, but it wasn't about jacking off. What kind of silly ass retarded twisted logic is that?

It's more like a small petulant child that doesn't get their way. They will pester, annoy, and inconvenience you in order to get what they want. Small hint, that only works a small percentage of the time and only if you're really a child
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pondwater
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« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2017, 06:09:24 pm »

You have just described both the reason why people protest (because "no one gives a shit")
So you're saying that people are protesting because I don't care about what THEY think I should care about? Talk about entitlement mentality.

and the goal of nonviolent civil disobedience (to "try and force people to give a shit" by inconveniencing them with your protests).
So you're saying that it's OK to inconvience people that you don't know and have never met because they don't give a shit about what YOU think they should give a shit about?

So what happens and who's fault is it when some race baiting idiot protester gets run over for clowning around on the highway? I guess you're going to blame the person minding their own business just trying to drive from point A to point B.
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Spider-Dan
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« Reply #20 on: October 12, 2017, 07:29:16 pm »

I think it has already been well-established that you do not believe these protesters have a legitimate grievance.  That is exactly why I say it does not matter what form the protests take; whether it's kneeling, raising a fist, or staying in the locker room, objectors like you will continue to insist that these players should stop being troublemakers and shut up.

There cannot be a "non-divisive" way for the NFL to address protests about racially-motivated police brutality when a majority of NFL fans believe racially-motivated police brutality is insignificant (or outright non-existent) in this country.  The topic is inherently divisive: between those who believe the problem exists and those who do not.  And it is not less divisive to simply silence the former and acquiesce to the latter.
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CF DolFan
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« Reply #21 on: October 13, 2017, 11:00:03 am »

If you are trying to win support for a cause it's best not to alienate your targeted audience. I can't see Disney trying to solicit business by upsetting kids. The NFL players get camera time any time they want it. Cap and whoever else can wear shirts, raise fists, toke a knee, send letters or do interviews pretty much any time they want. They have that access to media without insulting people.

The reason they are protesting was lost so long ago it doesn't matter what they are protesting in the general publics eye. On the regular radio this morning the Djs were discussing how no one discusses football any longer like how bad the Dolphins are sucking or what a surprise the Jets have been. It's all about did you see who kneeled or didn't come out of the tunnel etc.
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Sunstroke
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« Reply #22 on: October 13, 2017, 11:20:33 am »

If you are trying to win support for a cause it's best not to alienate your targeted audience. I can't see Disney trying to solicit business by upsetting kids. The NFL players get camera time any time they want it. Cap and whoever else can wear shirts, raise fists, toke a knee, send letters or do interviews pretty much any time they want. They have that access to media without insulting people.

The reason they are protesting was lost so long ago it doesn't matter what they are protesting in the general publics eye. On the regular radio this morning the Djs were discussing how no one discusses football any longer like how bad the Dolphins are sucking or what a surprise the Jets have been. It's all about did you see who kneeled or didn't come out of the tunnel etc.

Some people still want to focus on the protests...I prefer to watch football.

As far as the "NFL players get camera time any time they want it." comment, that just comes off sounding so ridiculously naive that I have a hard time believing you didn't stop in the middle of typing it and think "what kind of ridiculous shit am I about to post here?"  Anyone can get "camera time" any time they want it, simply by pointing a camera at themselves. What the players want is the extra large TV audience tuning in to the game to recognize (and support) their cause...which, to point out another fallacy in your post, hasn't been forgotten at all. 

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CF DolFan
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« Reply #23 on: October 13, 2017, 04:04:53 pm »

I can point my camera all I want but no one is going to watch. They can call any local station or paper and have media present. In fact I bet they are only a phone call away from ESPN as well. All of this doesn't really matter because everyday they have a ton of media at practice and games.  It's apples and oranges and you know that.
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« Reply #24 on: October 13, 2017, 04:33:32 pm »

I can point my camera all I want but no one is going to watch. They can call any local station or paper and have media present. In fact I bet they are only a phone call away from ESPN as well. All of this doesn't really matter because everyday they have a ton of media at practice and games.  It's apples and oranges and you know that.

You're missing the point...hopefully not intentionally, as that would be a bit rude.  The point is that they can't "just call ESPN" and have a TV market of umpty million viewers provided to them. At the start of an NFL game, that's what they've got.

I do have to wonder how much you guys would whine if Kaepernick had taken a knee to protest homeless veterans in America or something that you actually give two shits about.


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MyGodWearsAHoodie
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« Reply #25 on: October 13, 2017, 05:29:24 pm »

The non-offensive protest doesn't exist.  Rosa Parks was offensive.  The American Americans who sat at a lunch counter in Greensboro were offensive.  The students who were protesting the Vietnam war on May 4,1970 at Kent State were offensive to the National Guard.
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Pappy13
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« Reply #26 on: October 13, 2017, 05:30:28 pm »

It is seen as disrespect here solely because of the issue he is protesting.  If Kaep had instead said that he was kneeling for the anthem because the VA is underfunded and there are homeless veterans in every major city, he would have been cheered wildly.
Agree with most of what you said Spider, but here you are way off base. In this country when the flag is presented and the anthem played, if you are able you stand and pay your respects. Period. If you choose not to, no one gives a damn about your reasons why. That's just how it is and I might add how it should be. You can disagree, but you are in the minority and I don't see that changing anytime soon.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2017, 05:37:29 pm by Pappy13 » Logged

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MyGodWearsAHoodie
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« Reply #27 on: October 13, 2017, 05:36:42 pm »

Agree with most of what you said Spider, but here you are way off base. In this country when the flag is presented and the anthem played, if you are able you stand and pay your respects. Period. If you choose not to, then no one gives a damn about your reasons why. That's just how it is and I might add how it should be. You can disagree, but you are in the minority and I don't see that changing anytime soon.

How can anyone consider taking a knee during the national anthem more offensive to our country than flying a flag of a group of terrorist who committed treason against the USA?
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Pappy13
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« Reply #28 on: October 13, 2017, 05:44:31 pm »

How can anyone consider taking a knee during the national anthem more offensive to our country than flying a flag of a group of terrorist who committed treason against the USA?
Do we need to compare the two as to which is more offensive? They both are offensive. It's not a pissing contest where someone loses. Stand and pay your respects to the country, it's flag and it's anthem that provides the very means for you to protest any damn thing you want. You don't have that right in some countries, that's what makes the US worthy of your respect. You can respect that even if you don't agree with everything that happens in the US.
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MyGodWearsAHoodie
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« Reply #29 on: October 13, 2017, 05:58:07 pm »

Do we need to compare the two as to which is more offensive? They both are offensive. It's not a pissing contest where someone loses. Stand and pay your respects to the country, it's flag and it's anthem that provides the very means for you to protest any damn thing you want. You don't have that right in some countries, that's what makes the US worthy of your respect. You can respect that even if you don't agree with everything that happens in the US.

NASCAR will not tolerate protests involving the national anthem but welcomes the confederate flag.  The POTUS and VEEP will go out of there way to condemn one, but says there are good neonazis.
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