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Author Topic: Questions  (Read 1810 times)
dolphins4life
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« on: November 20, 2017, 11:09:13 pm »

1) The first question is about the fumble play.  I need a rule clarification:

I requested a video of the play on another Dolphins website, and it was supplied to me.

The video shows:

1) Fitzpatrick dropping back to pass then moving forward

2) Then, he bumps into his teammate, which knocks him back into the end zone.

3) NO DOLPHIN TOUCHES HIM UNTIL HE IS IN THE ENDZONE

Does the rule explicitly state that a player's forward momentum cannot be stopped be his own teammate?

2) This is for everybody on the board.  Is there anybody out there who now truly believes that Matt Moore should not be the starter?  The reason why the offense struggled under Cutler is because he cannot throw down the field.  Matt Moore can.  Matt Moore was amazing yesterday.  He did it even with no running game to support.  He converted third down and long after third down and long.  I can't remember Tannehill doing that once during his tenure here.

3) Has a coach ever done more to sabotage a season than Adam Gase?  Trading away the team's greatest offensive threat.  Maybe with Ajayi, Miami defeats Oakland and Tampa.  Imagine being 6-4 right now instead of 4-6.

4) Will the Dolphins ever fix their offensive line problems?  It seems like they have tried everything in the book, but nothing has worked. 
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Tenshot13
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« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2017, 06:46:13 am »

1.  That was a safety.  Forward momentum doesn't count if you own guy is pushing you back.

2.  Moore is an average QB at best.  Cutler is an average QB at best. Tannehill is better than both and it's not close.

3.  Your memory is terrible, as the offense was non existent when Ajayi played this year. 

4.  Who knows?
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fyo
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« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2017, 08:57:10 am »

Does the rule explicitly state that a player's forward momentum cannot be stopped be his own teammate?

Mike Pereira (former NFL head of officiating) was very clear on the matter during the broadcast, for anyone watching the game. Forward progress cannot be stopped by a teammate. As for what the rule states explicitly... well, the rule isn't likely to (and indeed doesn't) state every single thing that CANNOT stop forward progress. That's not how the rules are formulated, although the rule book will, at times, specify certain exceptions. In this case it doesn't, so what you get is an intertwined set of articles within the rules that ultimately require knowledge of NFL rules interpretation, which we've been given in this case by Mike Pereira.

If you want the exact wording on the Forward Progress "rule":

SECTION 13 FORWARD PROGRESS
ARTICLE 1. FORWARD PROGRESS. The Forward Progress of a runner or airborne receiver is the point at which his advance
toward his opponent’s goal ends and is the spot at which the ball is declared dead by rule, irrespective of the runner or receiver
being pushed or carried backward by an opponent.


This references "ball is declared dead by rule", so we'll look at that:

SECTION 2 DEAD BALL
ARTICLE 1. DEAD BALL DECLARED. An official shall declare the ball dead and the down ended:

[snip]

(b) when a runner is held or otherwise restrained so that his forward progress ends


And just for completeness the relevant section on Safety:

SECTION 5 SAFETY
ARTICLE 1. SAFETY. It is a Safety:

[snip]

(b) when an impetus by a team sends the ball behind its own goal line, and the ball is dead in the end zone in its possession
or the ball is out of bounds behind the goal line.
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Dave Gray
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« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2017, 10:48:11 am »

1) I think the refs just got it wrong.  Simple as that.
2) Cutler is better than Moore and should start.  Moore is a backup QB, as judged by 3 different professional coaching staffs.  The time you're seeing Moore play well, teams haven't prepared for his style of play and he's coming in fresh after everyone else is tired.  When teams can prepare for Moore, he's a bum -- as evidenced by his lone start this season.
3) A coach has to create a culture in order to be successful.  Apparently, there was a conflict between Gase and Ajayi, despite his talent that wasn't helping that culture.  Also, there were whispers about the long-term durability of Ajayi.  Whether that will work long-term...who knows?  Either way, Ajayi was not successful here and the running game has actually improved since he left.  I don't know that it will prove to be the right decision, but so far, there's nothing to suggest that Ajayi would have improved the current team.
4) This is the big question -- we have put a lot of resources to the O-line and they just aren't good enough.  They're OK at times, but considering the cost, it's just not where it needs to be.  Add that your starting QB hasn't been able to play a full season for a while and you have a recipe for a losing team.

The truth is that we're just not a great football team and haven't had a competitive backbone of talent for a long, long time.  It's going to take several years of improvement to get out of that hole.
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Dave Gray
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« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2017, 10:57:48 am »

 Imagine being 6-4 right now instead of 4-6.

One more thing...

I know you take a lot of crap on this site, but I do appreciate you having an opinion, so I'm going to try to address this honestly:

Your fandom needs to do some growing-up.  What I mean by that is that you see football like I did when I was younger.  Having been through the years and watched a lot of the game, your understanding changes.  ...not like I'm Vince Lombardi or anything, but I've learned to see past records and past QB/coach/penalty stuff.

Our problems are deeper.  Even if we'd gotten two bounces and won two close games and were 6-4, we're not a better team.  We are just as close to being 2-8, if San Diego makes a kick and the Jets don't implode.    It doesn't matter.  I've seen teams back into the playoffs just to lose in an uncompetitive manner.

We're not a playoff quality team.  We weren't last year either, despite making the playoffs.  And we haven't been for a long, long time.  So, worrying about one player or one call or one bounce really misses the point.  We just aren't fundamentally good at personnel and shoring up the basic building-blocks of a roster: offensive line, defensive line, and "weakest link". 

It burns my ass to see Kiko Alonso get burned in coverage over and over; targeted because he's not capable of covering in space...but what can you do?  He's the best you got, so you make do.  But if Alonso is still getting burned for years to come, you can't blame him for it anymore. 
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MyGodWearsAHoodie
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« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2017, 05:57:20 pm »

Dolphins should have lost 30-22 instead of 30-20.  Happy now?
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hordman
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« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2017, 11:22:43 am »

Dolphins should have lost 30-22 instead of 30-20.  Happy now?

Yeah, I don't think so.  Game at that point becomes 20-15 with MIA getting the ball in decent field position after the free kick. Possibly MIA goes down and scores again, either a FG or TD cause TB was having a tough time stopping MIA offense in the 2nd half.

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fyo
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« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2017, 12:51:32 pm »

Yeah, I don't think so.  Game at that point becomes 20-15 with MIA getting the ball in decent field position after the free kick. Possibly MIA goes down and scores again, either a FG or TD cause TB was having a tough time stopping MIA offense in the 2nd half.



Hoodie is trolling. Don't feed him.
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MyGodWearsAHoodie
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« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2017, 09:05:30 pm »

Hoodie is trolling. Don't feed him.

 Grin
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