Supreme Court rules in favor of Christian baker in same sex lawsuit

[CF DolFan]

Years ago my wife was contacted by a gay couple of out miami. they found her through word of mouth and asked her to make them a cake for their commitment ceremony (cause weddings were still illegal) They had tried 4-5 bakeries or individuals that were referred and were turned down by all of them.

She agreed and we delivered a cake to the ceremony. What they asked for was completely normal, it was a white cake with silver edible grape decorations (the family owned a vinyard) and flowers. It made no reference to the sexual orientation of anyone. Yet they had been denied service by multiple people. I thought it was wrong then, i think it's still wrong now. If there's a religious justification to discriminate against good people then the religion is morally corrupt. If the government allows it then we are all morally complicit in this.

Not sure why you think it is morally corrupt. It just goes against what they believe to be moral. They aren't forcing anyone not to be gay. The Bible teaches homosexuality is a sin. So is sleeping with your neighbors wife. I don't see a Christian baker making a cake celebrating homosexuality or adulatory but they would serve both the homosexual and the adulterer. I can't speak for all but in general I also think they would help either out if they were in need.

[Dave Gray]

What about divorce?  If you think divorce is wrong, are you able to deny making someone a birthday cake that's been divorced?

What about interracial marriage?  Are you able to refuse to put a black groom with a white bride?  I mean...there are lots of related issues where it becomes tricky.

[CF DolFan]

What about divorce?  If you think divorce is wrong, are you able to deny making someone a birthday cake that's been divorced?

What about interracial marriage?  Are you able to refuse to put a black groom with a white bride?  I mean...there are lots of related issues where it becomes tricky.

Divorce and interracial marriage are not protected so yes you could. I disagree with it but like someone else said ... when you have so many other options why would you want to force business on someone who doesn't appear to like you.  This isn't anything like Rosa Parks. There are typically tons of other options to use.  I know I wouldn't want to support or do business with someone who went out of their way to disrespect me.

[Sunstroke]

...I know I wouldn't want to support or do business with someone who went out of their way to disrespect me.

You should try doing that to those who go out of their way to disrespect someone other than you...

Hey, now that's something to pray for!

[Phishfan]

We are jumping into examples that have no real life possibility. How would a birthday cake baker know anyone's marriage status unless they had a personal relationship and at that point if they refuse to make a cake then there are some serious issues between the two that go beyond a cake.

[pondwater]

We are jumping into examples that have no real life possibility. How would a birthday cake baker know anyone's marriage status unless they had a personal relationship and at that point if they refuse to make a cake then there are some serious issues between the two that go beyond a cake.

Again I'll ask, other than this cake situation or other very limited situations, how would anyone even know you're gay. You should keep your private life private. I'm sure that there were plenty of options for them to get the cake they wanted. That particular baker isn't the only one in the country to make wedding cakes. The reason this went so far is simply because they wanted attention and to force people accept their abnormal behavior. In life you can't make people accept you, that's where self esteem comes in.

Also, how is a cake any different from a menu item? If a Mexican goes into Burger King and orders a taco. Is Burger King racist for telling the Mexican that they don't serve Mexican food? The bottom line is that the government shouldn't be forcing people to do business with each other.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

This seems to be the best interpretation of the ruling.  You can discriminate against the product, but not against the customer.

I tend to agree.  By analogy let us consider physical products rather than services. 

Can a hobby store refuse sell an African-American woman a superman figurine they have in stock? - NO.  But can that same store carry superman figurines but not Wonder women or Black Panther figurine?  Yes. 

There are plenty of stores that sell Christmas trees but not Hanukkah menorahs. 

There are plenty of stores that sell some Barbies but not Ballerina Nikki.       

I do expect follow up cases to clarify that this was a narrow opinion, with very specific facts and not an opening for blanket discrimination.

[Phishfan]

Again I'll ask, other than this cake situation or other very limited situations, how would anyone even know you're gay.

Off the top of my head I can think of; a couple buying a car, listing a spouse on a credit card or bank account, buying a house or renting a place and I am sure there are plenty more if I try to think of them.

[CF DolFan]

Off the top of my head I can think of; a couple buying a car, listing a spouse on a credit card or bank account, buying a house or renting a place and I am sure there are plenty more if I try to think of them.

My wife is a mortgage underwriter and she said with the exception of certain instances, she has no idea if the two guys are married, friends, business partners, relatives or Siamese twins with different last names.  I'd think that's the case most of the time.

[Dave Gray]

We are jumping into examples that have no real life possibility. How would a birthday cake baker know anyone's marriage status unless they had a personal relationship and at that point if they refuse to make a cake then there are some serious issues between the two that go beyond a cake.

If someone acts or sounds gay or orders with another man.  You can tell people are gay people sometimes.  It could be used as an excuse to discriminate.

[CF DolFan]

If someone acts or sounds gay or orders with another man.  You can tell people are gay people sometimes.  It could be used as an excuse to discriminate.

Even if you can't and they refuse to serve you for no reason then I'd think being gay is a legitimate reason to file a complaint.

[Phishfan]

If someone acts or sounds gay or orders with another man.  You can tell people are gay people sometimes.  It could be used as an excuse to discriminate.

We were not discussing gay people in your birthday cake example. You asked about divorced people. Maybe one person in a million would over share about that when ordering a cake but for practical discussion, the bakery would never know someone is divorced when discussing a birthday cake.

[CF DolFan]

We were not discussing gay people in your birthday cake example. You asked about divorced people. Maybe one person in a million would over share about that when ordering a cake but for practical discussion, the bakery would never know someone is divorced when discussing a birthday cake.

I took it to mean in them not making a divorce cake. Like it says "Thank God for my divorce!! "  of "Divorces Rule" or something along those lines.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Hypothetical: 

Women goes into a bakery and orders a large cake with the words "Free at Last - Celebrating Freedom - Standing up to Tyrants" for next week. The woman doesn't offer why she is buying such a cake.  But the baker knows that on that day Kim Tony will be speaking at the local high school about being released from North Korea and he assumes that the cake is for that event.  He tells the women he likes her and is going to give her a 50% discount. 

When the women comes to pick up the cake the baker says he will see her tonight and he is excited to hear Kim Tony.  She responds, "what are you talking about this is for my brother who is getting out of jail tomorrow after spending time for throwing urine at a cop at a Trump rally." 

Baker refuses to sell her the cake. She demands the cake at the 50% off as she was promised.   

Who wins? 

[Sunstroke]

^^ Customer wins...and the baker learns a lesson about assumptions.