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Author Topic: Comey used a private e-mail account to conduct official FBI business  (Read 14047 times)
pondwater
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« Reply #45 on: June 19, 2018, 04:00:15 pm »

Assuming you are correct about the countries (doubtful being you are wrong about US) all but one is a brutal dictatorship.  Trump has made it clear he wants to transform the USA into a country where he is treated like Kim of NK, however, I am not looking to model any aspect of USA's approach to human rights after any of the countries you listed.  Apparently Trump and Sessions feel NK is a model for human rights and immigration policy. 
That's not the point. The point is that there are consequences for doing illegal things. If you don't want the consequences, don't do illegal things. Yeah, blame the people enforcing the rules, not the rule breakers. Just more of that good ole liberal "lack of accountability" for one's own actions.
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MyGodWearsAHoodie
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« Reply #46 on: June 19, 2018, 05:21:51 pm »

That's not the point. The point is that there are consequences for doing illegal things. If you don't want the consequences, don't do illegal things. Yeah, blame the people enforcing the rules, not the rule breakers. Just more of that good ole liberal "lack of accountability" for one's own actions.

That is exactly the point.  Everyday Trump (with the help of the republicans in congress) are moving us away from the ideas of democracy and towards a totalitarian society. Disregarding of basic human rights, attacks on the press, scapegoating minorities,  support of neo-nazis and other hate groups, using the presidency for personal finical gain, disregard of separation of church and state, propaganda, blatant lying by the government, demands for ultra-patriotism and the crushing of dissent.       
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There are two rules for success:
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Spider-Dan
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« Reply #47 on: June 19, 2018, 06:52:39 pm »

In other countries it's not a misdemeanor:
To recap: as a rebuttal to an accurate summation of current US law, your counterexamples are... North Korea, Iran, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, China, Venezuela, and Cuba.

Those countries should be considered cautionary tales, not a how-to manual.
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MyGodWearsAHoodie
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« Reply #48 on: June 19, 2018, 07:38:27 pm »

A victim of one of the worst moments in USA's history explains why this is worse than the Japanese Interment during WWII. 

http://foreignpolicy.com/2018/06/19/at-least-during-the-internment-are-words-i-thought-id-never-utter-family-separation-children-border/
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Spider-Dan
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« Reply #49 on: June 19, 2018, 11:34:23 pm »

That's not the point. The point is that there are consequences for doing illegal things. If you don't want the consequences, don't do illegal things. Yeah, blame the people enforcing the rules, not the rule breakers.
Speeding is a crime.
That crime has a defined penalty.
It is absurd to make up new penalties on the fly and say, "Well then, don't commit crimes and you don't have anything to worry about."

However, applying for asylum is NOT a crime, yet the families are STILL being separated.  So let's not pretend that the "crime" is the issue here.  The issue, as Jeff Sessions already clearly stated, is deterring immigration into this country.  Period.
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pondwater
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« Reply #50 on: June 20, 2018, 04:06:36 am »

Speeding is a crime.
That crime has a defined penalty.
It is absurd to make up new penalties on the fly and say, "Well then, don't commit crimes and you don't have anything to worry about."

However, applying for asylum is NOT a crime, yet the families are STILL being separated.  So let's not pretend that the "crime" is the issue here.  The issue, as Jeff Sessions already clearly stated, is deterring immigration into this country.  Period.
As usual, your deflection is on point today. In that case, let's round up all people in sanctuary cities that are ACTUALLY hear right now illegally. Lock them up, separate them from their kids, and prosecute them. How's that? That should be OK with you since your whole argument is based on some silly ass "asylum seekers" red herring. What about the millions upon millions that are already here currently breaking the law?
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Sunstroke
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Stop your bloodclot cryin'!


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« Reply #51 on: June 20, 2018, 08:52:15 am »

If you cross the North Korean border illegally you get 12 years hard labor.
If you cross the Iranian border illegally you are detained indefinitely.
If you cross the Afghan border illegally, you get shot.
If you cross the Saudi Arabian border illegally you will be jailed.
If you cross the Chinese border illegally you may never be heard from again.
If you cross the Venezuelan border illegally you will be branded a spy and you fate sealed.
If you cross the Cuban border illegally you will be thrown into political prison to rot.

I can respect where you're coming from, Buc, but among the group of:

North Korea
Iran
Afghanistan
Saudi Arabia
China
Venezuela
Cuba

...which of these countries do you think America should aspire to emulate, either ethically, morally or judiciously?


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"There's no such thing as objectivity. We're all just interpreting signals from the universe and trying to make sense of them. Dim, shaky, weak, staticky little signals that only hint at the complexity of a universe that we cannot begin to comprehend."
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Tenshot13
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« Reply #52 on: June 20, 2018, 09:10:06 am »

I can respect where you're coming from, Buc, but among the group of:

North Korea
Iran
Afghanistan
Saudi Arabia
China
Venezuela
Cuba

...which of these countries do you think America should aspire to emulate, either ethically, morally or judiciously?



I'd write in Singapore, sometimes people need a good caning.
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CF DolFan
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cf_dolfan
« Reply #53 on: June 20, 2018, 09:24:27 am »

What do your principles say about "the end justifies the means" morality?

You aren't required to defend Trump; you don't have to be his cheerleader.  You could  denounce him while accepting your policy "wins" (such as they are).  But you CHOOSE to defend him and make excuses for him.  So it's on you.
Your just making things up. I do not defend anything from him that I do not agree with although I do call out the hypocrisy from the left when they complain about Trump being immoral, a liar, and a fornicator! hahahaha

First, choosing which laws to enforce IS policy.  Just ask Trump's EPA.
Second, there is no law that requires families to be separated at the border.  That is an interpretation, which Sessions said was specifically intended as a deterrent.
Choosing which laws to enforce is policy? Hypocrite much?  Which is it ... equal rights across the board or selective enforcement? You can't have it both ways.
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Getting offended by something you see on the internet is like choosing to step in dog shite instead of walking around it.
Sunstroke
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Stop your bloodclot cryin'!


Email
« Reply #54 on: June 20, 2018, 09:27:35 am »

I'd write in Singapore, sometimes people need a good caning.

Yeah, especially those migrant kids who won't stop crying when they get yanked away from their parents. Wink


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"There's no such thing as objectivity. We're all just interpreting signals from the universe and trying to make sense of them. Dim, shaky, weak, staticky little signals that only hint at the complexity of a universe that we cannot begin to comprehend."
~ Micah Leggat
CF DolFan
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cf_dolfan
« Reply #55 on: June 20, 2018, 09:33:25 am »

I don't think anyone likes what is going on. Even Laura Bush is condemning it and her husband is the one who signed the law the causes it (the Homeland Security Act of 2002) and the the Flores Settlement under Clinton. If someone breaks the law they have to be arrested and cannot be with their kids. There kids have to be sent back much faster than the parents can be processed. This is what it is.

I agree with Hillary when she said "We have to send a clear message: just because your child gets across the border, doesn't mean your child gets to stay. We don't want to send a message that is contrary to our laws or that will encourage more children to make that dangerous journey." and Obama when he said "Do not send your children to the border," Obama said. "The problem is that under current law, once those kids come across the border, there is a system in which we're supposed to process them, take care of them until we can send them back."

If you are upset by kids being separated at the border it's been going on since the Bush administration. Please show me where you expressed concern prior to Trump and then I'll act like your concern is valid. Otherwise you are a hypocrite. It's funny when the original pictures surfaced to back up the outrage they were actually from the Obama years.

Outside of all the political propaganda being spoken right now everyone knows it is a broken system. Everyone agrees the system is broken. Clinton and Bush could have fixed this. Obama had 8 years to change it but he didn't. Trump wants people to get together to fix our broken system and yet Democrats refuse. Trump said enforce the law and now Democrats are pretending to be upset by the law. Why weren't they upset when Obama was president? They are playing the political game to me. It sucks but this is what happens when people encourage illegals to come here and do not have a system in place that protects the American people. Heck even when we do ... people can choose not to enforce the law at their own discretion as Spider said.

« Last Edit: June 20, 2018, 09:42:29 am by CF DolFan » Logged

Getting offended by something you see on the internet is like choosing to step in dog shite instead of walking around it.
Tenshot13
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« Reply #56 on: June 20, 2018, 09:46:29 am »

Yeah, especially those migrant kids who won't stop crying when they get yanked away from their parents. Wink



God yes, especially them.  Have you ever been at an Applebee's and the table next to you has a crying kid that won't shut up?  Grin
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CF DolFan
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cf_dolfan
« Reply #57 on: June 20, 2018, 09:55:31 am »

Just to remind you guys here are some pics from the Obama years. I'd post them directly but I do not know how to make them smaller.

http://dailycaller.com/2018/06/19/photos-obama-immigration-detention-facilities/


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Getting offended by something you see on the internet is like choosing to step in dog shite instead of walking around it.
Phishfan
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« Reply #58 on: June 20, 2018, 10:57:08 am »



However, applying for asylum is NOT a crime, yet the families are STILL being separated.  So let's not pretend that the "crime" is the issue here.  The issue, as Jeff Sessions already clearly stated, is deterring immigration into this country.  Period.

I don't want to come across as defending the policy but from what I understand, the detainees are committing a crime because they are not coming to authorized points of entry. It is hard to apply for asylum when you are trying to avoid legal entry to start the process.
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Cathal
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« Reply #59 on: June 20, 2018, 11:31:25 am »

CF, you must just peddle what Fox News and others say when it comes to things like this. Obama did it too, where was the outrage! Well, again, facts are kind of important. I know you don't like them, but they're there if you look. Obama rarely separated families, and more often than not, they were reunited. This administration is doing things in an unprecedented scale and NOT returning the kids to their parents. It's a deliberate policy they are enforcing to cause this harm. On top of that, having the Bible guide your policy of separating kids (see Jeff Sessions), then you get into even more trouble (hi separation of church and state). Of course, Jeff Sessions kind of stopped early in quote of the bible verse, because a few sentences letter, he would have gotten the point.
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