Proper Anthem Conduct

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

i would argue that those people didn't forget hitler, rather know exactly who he was and support his actions

I would say the same about those who honor Nathan Bedford Forrest.

[CF DolFan]

I would say the same about those who honor Nathan Bedford Forrest.

I don't think people forget Forest but he actually symbolizes much of the racists of the day. Forest saw the light and made a change ... if you will. He went on to speak in favor of black advancement and that's actually a pretty powerful testimony coming from someone who used to head the KKK.  It's powerful in the same way one of the largest persecutors of Christians (Paul) was turned into the biggest voice for Jesus in the New Testament.

Look ... most supremacist have a mental disorder. I say most because I do believe some people, both black, white, yellow or whatever ... are born into a world where they really do not know any better. Once truth is revealed they turn their backs on their past.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

None of the monuments exist to honor his later slight softening of racist views.  All of them commemorate his military victories such as Ft. Pillow and his involvement in the KKK.  The naming of High Schools after him as a response to Brown vs Board Ed was not done for one speech at the end of his life, but to honor a lifetime of murdering blacks.

And he never renounced his involvement in the KKK, he lied claiming he never was a member.  That is hardly a confessional.  Hell even Albert Speer is a more sympathetic figure than Forrest.  But I would be seriously pissed if someone erected a statue in his honor.

[CF DolFan]

None of the monuments exist to honor his later slight softening of racist views.  All of them commemorate his military victories such as Ft. Pillow and his involvement in the KKK.  The naming of High Schools after him as a response to Brown vs Board Ed was not done for one speech at the end of his life, but to honor a lifetime of murdering blacks.

And he never renounced his involvement in the KKK, he lied claiming he never was a member.  That is hardly a confessional.  Hell even Albert Speer is a more sympathetic figure than Forrest.  But I would be seriously pissed if someone erected a statue in his honor.

I don't see it like you and I know that isn't what we taught in school ... here in the south. 

In the last years of his life, Forrest publicly denounced the violence and racism practiced by the Klan, insisted he had never been a member, and made repeated public speeches in favor of racial harmony.[22] As an effort of reconciliation, during a meeting with African Americans in 1875, Forrest accepted flowers from a black woman, a gesture that led to his being denounced by some of his former comrades in the Confederate Army.[23][24] Although scholars admire Forrest as a military strategist, he has remained a highly controversial figure in Southern history, especially for his role in the attack on Fort Pillow, his 1867–1869 leadership of the Ku Klux Klan, and his political influence as a Tennessee delegate at the 1868 Democratic National Convention.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nathan_Bedford_Forrest

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

So let me make sure i understand this correctly.   It is your opinion that the monuments to Forrest are to commerate his later life tolerance and not because of his participation in the war to preserve slavery or his violence against freed blacks after the war?

[CF DolFan]

So let me make sure i understand this correctly.   It is your opinion that the monuments to Forrest are to commerate his later life tolerance and not because of his participation in the war to preserve slavery or his violence against freed blacks after the war?

No .... that's not what I'm saying. No one is honoring him because fought for slavery. Ok ... I can't say anyone because we all know racists exist ... but for the general southerner he was a leader. The fact he, like many of our other ancestors, had skewed visions of slaves, does not change that fact. It's not like that view was exclusive to him or just the south.  As f'ed up as it is ... it was a common point of view.

[Spider-Dan]

CF, the disconnect is that most people (outside of the South?) acknowledge that the American Civil War was fought over slavery, in which case you can't separate "fought for the South" and "fought to protect slavery."

I mean, what would you say to someone who wanted to honor a Nazi general... not for defending Nazism and the Third Reich, but for being a proud German patriot?  The amount of daylight between Confederate generals and Nazi generals is pretty slim.  (Both started a war to enforce white supremacy, but the Nazis had more genocide and less treason.)

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-rally-montana-heckler-video-2018-9?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=topbar&utm_term=desktop

Shades of totalitarianism.

[Tenshot13]

^Shades of tinfoil hat lol.  Are you kidding me Hoodie?  They made a guy move that was behind trump, who cares?

[Cathal]

To be fair, I'm sure if anyone in the background made a move that would make the politician look silly, they'd probably be moved. Of course, we all know Trump fits the totalitarianism model, but that's probably not this. They replaced other men with women too, for some reason.

[Cathal]

Hoodie, going back to your earlier one about the guy being removed. I would like to say that you were correct. He was removed for not being enthusiastic enough and just going along with what Trump said. Just adds to the dictator lifestyle Trump wants.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Saw one line that perfectly describes the anthem situation: For some racism is so American that protesting racism is viewed as being anti-American.

[CF DolFan]

Saw one line that perfectly describes the anthem situation: For some racism is so American that protesting racism is viewed as being anti-American.

That’s convienient to make someone feel better about themselves but no one, or very few at least, see the protests as being against racism.  Even many people who support the protest admit the message was lost a long time ago.

[Cathal]

That’s convienient to make someone feel better about themselves but no one, or very few at least, see the protests as being against racism.  Even many people who support the protest admit the message was lost a long time ago.

It was lost long time ago because you refused to listen and remember. Most of us realize it was about systemic police bias against minorities and the bevy of videos/cases of police brutality against unarmed black men. It's a simple message that people want to distort.

[Tenshot13]

It was distorted from the beginning.  Kneeling =/= police brutality.  You can't call people racist when they are being patriotic and find offense when someone disrespects that.