Isolation of the Law Enforcement Community/What about your job surprises you?

[SCFinfan]

One of the most integral parts of my practice is my outreach to the police. I never realized it before practicing criminal law, but I've noticed that, amongst the various substrata of society, law enforcement is amongst the most isolated, the most insular. Current day officers, especially the young ones, feel a horrible pull to be like "normal" people and have active and fun lives, along with burgeoning social media accounts - but they can't. Most officers around here do not put their last names on their facebook profiles to ward off potential weirdos who may try to contact them about tickets, arrests, investigations etc. Likewise, the hours they work make a "normal" social life an impossibility (either 4 12 hour shifts a week or 5 10 hour shifts).

Likewise, many of the older ones feel the media is unfairly bent against them on the national level, though local news (it seems to me) still seemingly gives weekly or monthly positive news stories about the police, at least in my area.

I never thought that part of my job as a defense attorney would be to make friends with these guys. The simple act of explaining to them your point of view on a certain piece of law, and explaining why a judge might buy it, has really gone a long way. The innate hostility or nervousness towards the defense bar normally drops away, and you're able to see the real, raw human being underneath the badge and gun. It's amazing to say, but, I've actually won or gotten good pleas on more cases simply because I've been respectful to the officer rather than of any special law knowledge or ability I possess.

So, my question is to you, is there any part of your job you didn't see coming but which is integral? Does outreach work with what you do? Have simple civility and niceness ever turned into a benefit for you professionally?

[CF DolFan]

I have a ton of law enforcement friends and I can tell you ... the newer generation of police is no where near the quality. I know of a very good guy who dropped out of the academy because in short order he realized how poorly they are treated these days.  I honestly feel we are doing a long term disservice to society as we continue to alienate authority figures like police.

[Fau Teixeira]

it's a direct result of the war on drugs, it's turned police into a para-military unit and the enemy is the general population

not surprised there's societal tension.

[CF DolFan]

it's a direct result of the war on drugs, it's turned police into a para-military unit and the enemy is the general population

not surprised there's societal tension.

I'm scratching my head. For those of us who are less informed ... could you please explain how going after drug offenders has resulted in all police being condemned, disrespected and attacked for police brutality ... regardless of if they have ever been a part of any incident.

[SCFinfan]

I have a ton of law enforcement friends and I can tell you ... the newer generation of police is no where near the quality. I know of a very good guy who dropped out of the academy because in short order he realized how poorly they are treated these days.  I honestly feel we are doing a long term disservice to society as we continue to alienate authority figures like police.

If you say so. The best officer I know is a female state trooper who is 27. She's unbeatable in court.

[Sunstroke]

I'm scratching my head. For those of us who are less informed ... could you please explain how going after drug offenders has resulted in all police being condemned, disrespected and attacked for police brutality ... regardless of if they have ever been a part of any incident.

There you go putting words in someone else's mouth... What Fausto actually said (it's only a few of posts up, for your confirmation convenience) is that he's not surprised there's societal tension.

If police were violently cracking down on middle aged white dudes who drink beer, you might experience a wee bit of that societal tension yourself.   Just sayin'...

[Fau Teixeira]

i'm more than happy to elaborate. There used to be a time where police were respected, because they were the good guys, both in popular culture and in most people's minds (minorities apart).

Then with Nixon, the war on drugs became a thing, and everyone has a cousin or neighbor that's been roughed up by the cops, or that's been arrested over minimal amounts of weed.

Ask Dave at some point about his story of being accused of being a gang banger when he was 17.

Being happy with cops is great as long as you don't know what really happens to people because of the war on drugs. Once you start looking, it's impossible to keep a favorable opinion of the police. Society then enters this split personality period about police, where you know someone and they're a good cop .. but you still figure they're the exception. and that most others are out there shooting black people or arresting 80 year old women for having under an 8th of an ounce of weed and a 2 week expired medical pot license.

The war on drugs has made the cops into the bad guys. It's amplified injustice and often times in a racially significant way and it's polluting the american psyche about what police are and should be.

Prosecutors also have to share the blame for this, but they aren't the spotlight like cops are.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

it's a direct result of the war on drugs, it's turned police into a para-military unit and the enemy is the general population

not surprised there's societal tension.

Disagree.  The turning point was Rodney King.  According to a DA I know, that was the turning point when juryies (ie ordinary citizens) stopped trusting LEO and defense attorneys were able to make headway into impeaching officers credibility.

[Spider-Dan]

I agree that it's the war on drugs, but I'd say it's more about the resulting militarization of the police.  Even though law enforcement deaths are pretty low compared to the rest of the post-war era (especially relative to the population at the time), it seems that law enforcement training these days is not unlike an imperial military occupying a hostile foreign country: every person is a potential threat, and the first priority should always be enforcing compliance.  If the subject will not comply, escalate until they do, up to and including deadly force.

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I'm not sure I have a good answer for the original question.  Being courteous and professional helps, but as a service provider (IT), people are generally inclined to treat me well anyway.  In what may come as the least surprising reveal to the readers here, I actually prefer to be the one that deals with difficult users, as I have no problem having extended discussions about what the rules and policies are.

[BigDaddyFin]

It's a combination of the war on drugs, a deteriorating respect for authority that is rampant in this society, and the fact that the media love to dump on the cops.

Also I think it's one of those things where it's not an interaction anyone looks forward to, so they get angry or inconvenienced instead.

[Fau Teixeira]

look at the treatment the cops gave to sterling brown in what otherwise should have been a parking ticket.

https://www.vox.com/identities/2018/5/23/17384720/milwaukee-police-sterling-brown-video-bucks-nba

that's why people don't respect cops in general. cause they pull shit like that

from the article:

The escalation of the arrest once again puts a spotlight on police use of force in America, particularly against black Americans. There are vast racial disparities in how police use force. These kinds of incidents, in which a dispute over a parking ticket can escalate into a violent arrest, are a major reason that police have lost so much trust and legitimacy within the black community.

i'd argue it isn't just the loss of trust and legitimacy within the black community, but also among the general population that aren't ignorant to the fact that this goes on

[Fau Teixeira]

Disagree.  The turning point was Rodney King.  According to a DA I know, that was the turning point when juryies (ie ordinary citizens) stopped trusting LEO and defense attorneys were able to make headway into impeaching officers credibility.

the article i linked actually touched on this topic

There’s research to back this up. A 2016 study, from sociologists Matthew Desmond of Harvard, Andrew Papachristos of Yale, and David Kirk of Oxford, looked at 911 calls in Milwaukee after incidents of police brutality hit the news.

They found that after the 2004 police beating of Frank Jude, 17 percent fewer 911 calls were made in the following year compared with the number of calls that would have been made had the Jude beating never happened. More than half of the effect came from fewer calls in black neighborhoods. And the effect persisted for more than a year, even after the officers involved in the beating were punished. Researchers found similar impacts on local 911 calls after other high-profile incidents of police violence.

But crime still happened in these neighborhoods. As 911 calls dropped, researchers also found a rise in homicides. They noted that “the spring and summer that followed Jude’s story were the deadliest in the seven years observed in our study.”

That suggests that people were simply dealing with crime themselves. And although the researchers couldn’t definitively prove it, that might mean civilians took to their own, sometimes violent, means to protect themselves when they couldn’t trust police to stop crime and violence.

[Phishfan]

A troubled relationship between the police and black communities goes back further than the war on drugs and Rodney King. The relationship was fractured before most of us were born and it hasn't recovered. The big difference right now is the Internet and that people are always connected.

I get nervous seeing a cop and I am white. I can't imagine how I would feel if I were a different race.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

A troubled relationship between the police and black communities goes back further than the war on drugs and Rodney King. The relationship was fractured before most of us were born and it hasn't recovered. The big difference right now is the Internet and that people are always connected.

I get nervous seeing a cop and I am white. I can't imagine how I would feel if I were a different race.

The fractured relationship between the AA community and police goes back as far as the 1600’s when the first LEO returned a runaway slave. 

Rodney King was significant because there was no denying the injustice, up until then it was easy for folks who had never personally had a negative encounter with a police to believe the police officers version of the story over someone with a lengthy rap sheet. 

The response of the  bulk of law enforcement made the situation much much worse as well.  Had there been universal condemnation by LEOs nationwide along the lines of, “what those officers did disgusts me.  They are a disgrace to the shield and every thing I stand for, believe in and the community I serve” then most people would have accepted that as a single incident of four bad apples.  But that is not what happened LEOs defended the police brutality claiming that King behavior justified it.  If you are cop that will condone that type of brutality I must conclude you are a racist cop who feels police brutality is acceptable.  And I can’t respect such an officer.  And being almost no LEOs condemned the brutality I must conclude almost all cops are bad cops.