Dallas police officer enters man's apartment and shoots him (split from anthem thread)

[Tenshot13]

My conclusion is it is clearly a hand signal done on purpose. I'm still trying to learn if he is a racist or simply a douche.

I could get behind that, whatever it is, it's on purpose.

[Phishfan]

Take it with a grain of salt but a witness is reporting they heard knocking with a woman yelling let me in just before the gun shots.

[Spider-Dan]

Let's be clear here: he is not making "two OK gestures," he is making two completely different hand signals.  His right hand (to the viewer's left) is a P, and his left hand is the OK signal.  If you are going to claim he is just making two OK signals and one of them is upside-down, you are being willfully delusional.

So I'm not sure why you guys are putting so much effort into defending the OK gesture; if he was just doing the OK then you might have a point.  The OK is a confirmation of what is going on in his other hand.

For example, if someone has their hand open and their arm out at an angle, you can argue that it's an awkward wave, i.e.:



Now, if you want to say that's not a Nazi salute, I agree.  It's just a picture with unfortunate timing. But if you take that same picture while staring into the camera and your other hand is making an OK?  Yeah, that's a Nazi salute.  Context matters.
 
The fact that the guy is giving both signals at the same time makes his intent crystal clear.

[Pappy13]

It absolutely has everything to do with the topic if the topic is him giving a signal.

Not really. Maybe if SHE was doing it?

[Spider-Dan]

Pappy, posting a picture you took with someone prominently wearing a swastika is basically indistinguishable from wearing one yourself.  That's the point.

[Tenshot13]

Let's be clear here: he is not making "two OK gestures," he is making two completely different hand signals.  His right hand (to the viewer's left) is a P, and his left hand is the OK signal.  If you are going to claim he is just making two OK signals and one of them is upside-down, you are being willfully delusional.

So I'm not sure why you guys are putting so much effort into defending the OK gesture; if he was just doing the OK then you might have a point.  The OK is a confirmation of what is going on in his other hand.

For example, if someone has their hand open and their arm out at an angle, you can argue that it's an awkward wave, i.e.:



Now, if you want to say that's not a Nazi salute, I agree.  It's just a picture with unfortunate timing. But if you take that same picture while staring into the camera and your other hand is making an OK?  Yeah, that's a Nazi salute.  Context matters.
 
The fact that the guy is giving both signals at the same time makes his intent crystal clear.

If he's doing the white power symbol or whatever, he's dyslexic...Power White?  I'm not sure why you are putting so much effort into demonizing this random person, in a picture taken at a random time, who happens to know the cop who's likely already going to jail for the rest of her life.  So does that mean Jameis Winston is for sure a rapist because he was in an Uber with a rapist?  Guilt by association!

[Spider-Dan]

If I were citing people who are definitely not rapists, I would probably pass on choosing Jameis Winston as my example.

And as stated above: taking smiling pictures with people endorsing white supremacy is endorsing white supremacy yourself.

[Pappy13]

Pappy, posting a picture you took with someone prominently wearing a swastika is basically indistinguishable from wearing one yourself.  That's the point.

I don't know the origin of that picture. Where did it come from? We know she posted it? Do we know she knows what the hand gesture he is making means? Seems the people on this forum can't really decide, how do we know she knows it means what you think it means?

Just to be clear I'm not exonerating her of anything. I'm also not accusing her of anything. You know, due process. Is that not something we do anymore?

[Pappy13]

And as stated above: taking smiling pictures with people endorsing white supremacy is endorsing white supremacy yourself.

Assuming of course that you are aware that's what you are doing. If after she saw the picture she demanded it be destroyed and rather it's posted on the internet without her knowledge that's something completely different. Otherwise every one of us could be accused of being racist since we post on a website that has a picture of a man making white supremacy gestures. Am I a racist for just posting on this website? I don't believe I am. If I shoot a black man THEN do I become a racist for posting on this website? Still don't think I am.

[Tenshot13]

If I were citing people who are definitely not rapists, I would probably pass on choosing Jameis Winston as my example.

And as stated above: taking smiling pictures with people endorsing white supremacy is endorsing white supremacy yourself.

Fair enough, that's a convoluted example.

I don't know the origin of that picture. Where did it come from? We know she posted it? Do we know she knows what the hand gesture he is making means? Seems the people in this board can't really decide, how do we know she knows it means what you think it means?

Just to be clear I'm not exonerating her of anything. I'm also not accusing her of anything at this moment. You know, due process. Is that not something we do anymore?

This is more what I was trying to get at, Pappy said it better than me.

[Pappy13]

I think we are missing some really crucial evidence here. According to the report she walked from her car to the apartment and tried to open the lock on the door. When she couldn't get it open she put down the things she was carrying. It was at this point the victim opened the door and startled her, she pulled her revolver, gave him some verbal commands which he did not comply with and shot him.

I'd like to know if those things she was carrying were found at the scene. Blood on them? Consistent with being on the floor when man was shot? Was the door of her apartment still locked? Any evidence that she had been in her own apartment on that night prior to or after the shooting like blood there? Does she have a known history with the man who was shot? I thought I read that she may have known him? Any other real evidence that her story is a fabrication? These are the questions I want to know. Whether or not there's a picture of her with her brother making gang symbols is pretty far down the list of things I want to know. I also understand there's some witnesses who said they heard voices, I don't find witness testimony to be that great in general. Could have been the person with the TV on too loud and not the off-duty cop or the victim or just mistaken what was said. Sometimes we are sure we heard something that we really didn't.

I'd also like to know what happened after she shot him? Did she try to help him? Perform CPR? Called 911 or the police? How long did that take? Did she have someone else do this while she tried to keep him alive? When exactly did he die? How many times did she shoot him? There's a lot of information that I don't know yet and haven't read anything about it yet.

I just read that she did not know the man and had only lived in the apartment complex a month. Doesn't seem like a long enough time to have had any kind of reason to confront him. Also sounds like she immediately called police when it happened but didn't give aid to the victim but the police that arrived did. He later died in the hospital.

[CF DolFan]

No offense but I'd really hate to get stuck on a jury with many people in this forum! hahaha I feel like we'd do nothing but beat dead horses for weeks and only end up a mistrial.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Assuming of course that you are aware that's what you are doing. If after she saw the picture she demanded it be destroyed and rather it's posted on the internet without her knowledge that's something completely different. Otherwise every one of us could be accused of being racist since we post on a website that has a picture of a man making white supremacy gestures. Am I a racist for just posting on this website? I don't believe I am. If I shoot a black man THEN do I become a racist for posting on this website? Still don't think I am.

So you would agree that if she posted these pictures or “liked them on Facebook”. Then it is very strong indicator she is racist.  But if she was unaware of the photos than it is not.  I am okay with that.  But given how easily the media found the photos, I am going to assume she was the poster or at the very least aware of them.  I am pretty good at being aware of what photos of me have my name tagged to them and *I* never had formal training in investigative skills.

[masterfins]

I think we are missing some really crucial evidence here. According to the report she walked from her car to the apartment and tried to open the lock on the door. When she couldn't get it open she put down the things she was carrying. It was at this point the victim opened the door and startled her, she pulled her revolver, gave him some verbal commands which he did not comply with and shot him.

A CBS news report published 3 hours ago said:

 According to an arrest warrant, Guyger told investigators that she went to what she thought was her third floor apartment. Instead, she went to Jean's fourth floor apartment directly above hers. Guyger says her door was "ajar" and saw a "large silhouette" inside.

 

After giving"verbal commands that were ignored," she fired her handgun twice, striking Jean once in the torso. It wasn't until Guyger "turned on the…lights" and "called 911" that she realized she was "at the wrong apartment.""We will make certain that justice is done in this case," said Dallas County District Attorney Faith Johnson.


Also in the news report, her statement was contradicted by the following:

Attorneys for Jean's family say two witnesses told them details that contradict Guyger's account.

"They heard knocking down the hallway followed by a woman's voice that they believe to be officer Guyger saying, 'Let me in. Let me in,'" attorney Lee Merritt said.

The family's attorneys say one of the witnesses then heard gunshots followed by a man's voice. "What we believe to be the last words of Botham Jean which was 'Oh my god, why did you do that?'" Merritt said.Allison Jean wants to know what happened to her son. "I'm not satisfied that we have all the answers," Allison said.

I'd be interested in the timing of when she made her statement, that night or days later when she had time to possibly concoct a story.  I find it hard to believe that the victim was walking around in his apartment, in the dark, with the door left ajar.  I wouldn't find it hard to believe that she came home from a long day's work, and the upstairs neighbor was making noise so she thought she'd go up there and shut him up.

[Spider-Dan]

She was not arrested for three days, which gave her plenty of time to construct a story that fits with the evidence; e.g. "I parked on a different floor than usual (?), therefore I forgot what floor I live on."  If this apartment building has assigned parking spaces (like every apartment complex I've ever seen), you'll know the fix is in.