Leah Remini and the aftermath of Scientology

[Pappy13]

This thread is basically a clinic on how members of a cult "belief system" can find excuse after excuse to explain away the misdeeds of leadership.

The irony is that the most aggressive attacker of one corrupt cabal is simultaneously the most ardent defender of another.

I hope no one thinks I'm explaining away misdeeds of the Catholic religion because I'm not in an way shape or form doing that. I fully admitted right from the beginning that the Catholic faith has had some MAJOR issues to deal with not just in recent years but in the past as well. The Catholic faith has had it's share of time in the spotlight and taken a beating over it for good reason. That in NO WAY means that I'm not allowed then to point out when another religion needs to be called into question for it's practices. On the contrary, having been through it and seen the Catholic Religion attempt to correct some of the problems it's had and to see that it's possible to make changes I'd like to see the Church of Scientology own up to it's own problems, admit they need to work on them and then make some much needed changes of their own.

[Dave Gray]

^ Not at all.

Your faith is your own and good for you.  I was raised Catholic and the church ain't for me.  But I don't want you to feel attacked about it.

[Tenshot13]

This thread is basically a clinic on how members of a cult "belief system" can find excuse after excuse to explain away the misdeeds of leadership.

The irony is that the most aggressive attacker of one corrupt cabal is simultaneously the most ardent defender of another.

I hope no one thinks I'm explaining away misdeeds of the Catholic religion because I'm not in an way shape or form doing that. I fully admitted right from the beginning that the Catholic faith has had some MAJOR issues to deal with not just in recent years but in the past as well. The Catholic faith has had it's share of time in the spotlight and taken a beating over it for good reason. That in NO WAY means that I'm not allowed then to point out when another religion needs to be called into question for it's practices.

Don't worry about it man, sometimes a smug cloud can block people's vision

[Pappy13]

^ Not at all.

Your faith is your own and good for you.  I was raised Catholic and the church ain't for me.  But I don't want you to feel attacked about it.

I'm not feeling attacked Dave, but I am actually horrified by the attitude of some here that "I couldn't give a rats ass what Scientology or any other religion does because they are all totally fucked". That's an EXTREMELY poor attitude in my humble opinion and I'm pretty much shocked by it. I hope that attitude is not indicative of atheists as a whole because if it is, I was giving FAR too much credit to atheists and their beliefs. That goes WAY beyond not believing in God. I knew Atheists didn't think I was right, I had no idea the level of contempt they have for Religion as a whole. I take it back, maybe I don't get Atheism either. Consider me educated.

[Dave Gray]

I think that the view of most atheists is that all religions are bullshit, in terms of dogma.  Some are just more socially accepted, evolved over 1000 years so the worst parts are behind us, or adopted by more secular societies where there is a check on their negative influences.

So, sure Christianity is better than Islam in the modern world, but not because the dogma is better.  It's just that the Crusades have happened and Islam hasn't grown past that part yet.  If we had a truly Christian-run nation, there'd be atrocities, I'm sure.  And Scientology is so obviously bullshit because it's new and we know who made up all the bullshit.  But give it 1000 years and it'll be right there alongside Christianity.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

I couldn't give a rats ass what Scientology or any other religion does because they are all totally fucked".

I don’t consider all religions be totally fucked up.  Many sects of most religions do more good than harm...by building a community and providing for the less fortunate.  Just as there are sects of Islam that have corrupted their religion to promote terrorism, there are sects of Christianity that bare no resemblance to the teachings of Jesus and are corrupt.  There are sects of Judism that I find abhorrent.  Catholism is among the fucked ip sects.

[Pappy13]

Scientology is so obviously bullshit because it's new and we know who made up all the bullshit.  But give it 1000 years and it'll be right there alongside Christianity.

Disagree on both counts. Religions like the Church of Scientology typically flame out, sometimes in horrific fashion.

[Spider-Dan]

The real difference is that there are more governments today that are officially bound by Islamic law, whereas most nominally Christian countries (e.g. Spain) have already done that and grown out of it.  Keep in mind that one of the main reasons the US was founded as the one of the first governments with no official endorsement of any religion is because of the original colonists' experience of being persecuted by the Christian church.

Any country in which Christianity (or Scientology!) had as much state control as, say, Islam does in Saudi Arabia would be equally barbaric.  All you have to do is look at the last sixty years of the religious right in this country to see that.

[Sunstroke]

there are sects of Christianity that bare no resemblance to the teachings of Jesus and are corrupt.

Exhibit A...

[Tenshot13]

^Everyone can agree the Westboro Baptist Church is full of the biggest pieces of shit in America, who hide behind the banner of Christianity.

[Tenshot13]

The real difference is that there are more governments today that are officially bound by Islamic law, whereas most nominally Christian countries (e.g. Spain) have already done that and grown out of it.  

Ottoman Empire (1301-1922).  They had 621 years to grow out of it.

[Spider-Dan]

I don't understand what you are getting at.  Are you comparing the Ottoman Empire to Spain, England, Italy, etc?

[MaineDolFan]

You do realize that it's not just Catholics or even religions that have a problem with child abuse. Athiests aren't exempt.

https://www.newsweek.com/priests-commit-no-more-abuse-other-males-70625

Let me get this right, we are attempting to give a pass to priests because non-priests are scumbags too?

This actually makes it worse.  

On one hand we have the possible worst people in society, the ones who prey on children.

On the other hand we have people who then hide behind religion in order to have access to children...in order to prey on children.  Thus, making them a subset of the worst "people" in society.

So, right.  Not sure where this comment was going but it's a massive, epic fail.

[Tenshot13]

Let me get this right, we are attempting to give a pass to priests because non-priests are scumbags too?

This actually makes it worse. 

On one hand we have the possible worst people in society, the ones who prey on children.

On the other hand we have people who then hide behind religion in order to have access to children...in order to prey on children.  Thus, making them a subset of the worst "people" in society.

So, right.  Not sure where this comment was going but it's a massive, epic fail.

Who's giving a pass?  I don't see any of that article or post giving anyone a pass.  Seems like your splitting hairs between the scummiest of scum bags and the scummiest of scum bags that hide behind religion.

[CF DolFan]

Leaders of the Church are actually held to a higher standard than the average Christian according to Paul. When he directed Timothy he said they must be above reproach meaning they can't even appear to be immoral to the outside. Once caught in any sex crime they may be forgiven ... but they are no longer above reproach.

1 Timothy 3:1-7
The saying is trustworthy: If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task. Therefore an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not a drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. He must manage his own household well, with all dignity keeping his children submissive, for if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for God's church?