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Author Topic: Charity  (Read 7903 times)
Phishfan
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« Reply #45 on: April 10, 2019, 02:43:51 pm »

My dad uses the VA on a  regular basis and I haven't heard much of a complaint from him.
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Tenshot13
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« Reply #46 on: April 10, 2019, 03:09:53 pm »

Mine does too, and all he has is complaints.  It took them many denials and a lot of waiting before they made things right.
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Spider-Dan
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« Reply #47 on: April 10, 2019, 03:45:58 pm »

Everyone knows someone who has complaints about their healthcare (unless they don't have any healthcare coverage to complain about).  That isn't a useful metric.

What IS useful is to compare government healthcare to private insurance.  And the results of that comparison are crystal clear: people on government healthcare plans are consistently more satisfied than those in private plans, and in countries with universal government healthcare, any politician who proposed going back to a private system would quickly find himself out of a job.

This is essentially conceded by opponents of universal government healthcare, who regularly say that if we implement such a plan, there's no way we'll ever be able to go back (which implies it couldn't possibly be worse than what we have now).
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pondwater
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« Reply #48 on: April 10, 2019, 05:18:25 pm »

This is essentially conceded by opponents of universal government healthcare, who regularly say that if we implement such a plan, there's no way we'll ever be able to go back (which implies it couldn't possibly be worse than what we have now).
No, it means that once you give something away for free or vastly reduced cost, then the recipients will resist giving it up regardless of whether it's good or not.
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Fau Teixeira
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« Reply #49 on: April 10, 2019, 09:03:04 pm »

No, it means that once you give something away for free or vastly reduced cost, then the recipients will resist giving it up regardless of whether it's good or not.

soo you're saying if government gets invovled it'll be at a vastly reduced cost .. good .. sounds great .. lets do that
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Spider-Dan
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« Reply #50 on: April 10, 2019, 10:17:38 pm »

To tie this back to the original topic, our current healthcare system - which forces a lot of people to rely on charity for their healthcare costs - does not create anywhere near as many satisfied participants as either:

a) universal healthcare in other countries, which regularly polls higher there than our private system does here, or
b) government-run healthcare here in our own country

Take another look at that chart I posted.  Literally every form of government-run healthcare polls higher than literally every form of private healthcare.

For-profit healthcare does not work.  Our system of capitalism is fundamentally incompatible with health services.  You cannot approach treating prostate cancer like buying a new car.  You cannot shop around for the best deal if you puncture a lung in a car accident.
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pondwater
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« Reply #51 on: April 11, 2019, 04:11:23 am »

soo you're saying if government gets invovled it'll be at a vastly reduced cost .. good .. sounds great .. lets do that
In life you usually get what you pay for and anything the government gets involved with is usually a train wreck shit show. Anyhow, contact your representatives and pitch the idea. I have a feeling it ain't happening any time soon.
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Fau Teixeira
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« Reply #52 on: April 11, 2019, 09:17:47 am »

In life you usually get what you pay for and anything the government gets involved with is usually a train wreck shit show. Anyhow, contact your representatives and pitch the idea. I have a feeling it ain't happening any time soon.

you're right . electrical grid, army, navy, interstate highways, the hoover dam, the internet, canals, nuclear power, bridges, tunnels, landing on the moon .. yep .. all a shit show
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pondwater
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« Reply #53 on: April 11, 2019, 03:56:29 pm »

you're right . electrical grid, army, navy, interstate highways, the hoover dam, the internet, canals, nuclear power, bridges, tunnels, landing on the moon .. yep .. all a shit show
I'll agree with the military. However, the government's main function is to protect its citizens from outside attack.

Landing on the moon is a moot point since it was 47 years ago and didn't really help anyone except the lowest bidding government contractors.

As far as the electrical grid, highways, bridges, dams, and tunnels (infrastructure). American Society of Civil Engineers' 2017 Infrastructure Report Card gave a grade of D+. Argue with that all you want, but US infrastructure is crumbling.
 
Aviation: D
Bridges: C+
Dams: D
Drinking Water: D
Energy: D+
Hazardous Waste: D+
Inland Waterways: D
Levees: D
Parks and Recreation: D+
Ports: C+
Roads: D
Schools: D+
Solid Waste: C+
Transit: D-
Wastewater: D+

There's no indication that health care would be any different. So yes, let's extrapolate the "D+" to government run healthcare and call it a SHIT SHOW.
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Fau Teixeira
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« Reply #54 on: April 11, 2019, 10:20:54 pm »

As far as the electrical grid, highways, bridges, dams, and tunnels (infrastructure). American Society of Civil Engineers' 2017 Infrastructure Report Card gave a grade of D+. Argue with that all you want, but US infrastructure is crumbling.

that's what happens when you don't invest in preventative maintenance and instead have a reactionist policy towards stuff

just like the US healthcare as compared to every other industrialized country
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Spider-Dan
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« Reply #55 on: April 12, 2019, 12:05:02 am »

To be clear: the American Society of Civil Engineers' Infrastructure Report Card assigns letter grades "based on the physical condition and needed investments for improvement."  So yeah, after 40 years of conservatives attacking the funding of public infrastructure projects, our infrastructure is badly in need of improvement and repair.

But this isn't even relevant, since the meaningful question is not "How terrible are government programs?", but rather "How much better or worse are private programs?"  And it's clear that even if government healthcare is bad, private healthcare is far worse.

So once again, it's like detailing all the problems with (representative) democracy as a form of government: it may be terrible, but everything else is even worse.
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Cathal
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« Reply #56 on: April 12, 2019, 08:08:18 am »

that's what happens when you don't invest in preventative maintenance and instead have a reactionist policy towards stuff

just like the US healthcare as compared to every other industrialized country

Yeah, I can't understand how they don't get that. I guess they feel invisible enemies and made up threats by their dear leader are more important.
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