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Author Topic: Something Miami needs to do  (Read 601 times)
dolphins4life
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« on: May 15, 2019, 11:44:36 pm »

Never say the word rebuild ever again.

You can't rebuild in the NFL.  There is too much fluidity and unexpected surprises. 

You gotta go into every season with the goal of winning it all.

No other job has this mantra.

Why does football?
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Pappy13
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« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2019, 09:58:03 am »

No what they need to quit doing is HYPING the fact that the Miami is rebuilding like it's some sort of magical bean that will grow into a championship. I get that you're trying to find the silver lining but lets be realistic you know you are going to suck for the next year or 2 at least and then there's no guarantee that after those 2 years you won't be rebuilding again or perhaps worse be the same 7-9 Dolphins you were last year. That's what is pissing me off.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2019, 10:00:25 am by Pappy13 » Logged

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MyGodWearsAHoodie
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« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2019, 10:05:21 am »

No what they need to quit doing is HYPING the fact that the Miami is rebuilding like it's some sort of magical bean that will grow into a championship. I get that you're trying to find the silver lining but lets be realistic you know you are going to suck for the next year or 2 at least and then there's no guarantee that after those 2 years you won't be rebuilding again or perhaps worse be the same 7-9 Dolphins you were last year.

I donít think they are hyping as much as lowering expectations.  If Flores declares Rex Ryan style that he choose an AFCE team specifically so he can dethrone BB and then goes 6-10 he becomes the butt of jokes.  If he take the Dolphins to 6-10 with current expectations he has a shot at CoY.
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Tenshot13
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« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2019, 10:20:23 am »

Nothing is pissing me off, I'm happy with the direction the team is going in.  No point being upset until we see the product on the field.
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Dolphster
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« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2019, 11:58:43 am »

I think sometimes the term rebuilding is used because it sounds better than "we have been horrible personnel managers and now we are going to suck for a while as we try to fix everything we did wrong."
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Pappy13
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« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2019, 02:29:10 pm »

I donít think they are hyping as much as lowering expectations.  If Flores declares Rex Ryan style that he choose an AFCE team specifically so he can dethrone BB and then goes 6-10 he becomes the butt of jokes.  If he take the Dolphins to 6-10 with current expectations he has a shot at CoY.
I'm not talking about Miami per se, I'm talking about all the media that I see saying that what Miami is doing is smart etc, etc. I get it. I'm not saying that what they are doing is wrong, but I think saying what they are doing is "smart" is a stretch. Basically they have chosen a path and are giving it a shot. Whether or not it's "smart" will be something we won't know for a couple years. If after 2 years they are playing under .500 I will have to question just how smart the moves are. If it works it will be "smart". If it doesn't it was stupid.

Miami wasn't 4-12 last year, they were 7-9. If they gave Gase another couple of years perhaps they could have been playing at a 10-6 clip or better. If you're 4-12 you don't have many options. Miami HAD options. They CHOSE this one. In my opinion it's only a "smart" choice if it works.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2019, 02:32:37 pm by Pappy13 » Logged

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MyGodWearsAHoodie
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« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2019, 06:03:44 pm »

I think the philosophy at work is that there is no difference between 2-14 and 8-8.  Neither makes the playoffs.  Or a two year stretch where you go 8-8 twice is inferior two a two year stretch where one season you win the super bowl and the other you go 2-14.  Even if both situations have the same two year total game win total. 

Keeping Gase might have gotten them a winning season, but he wasnít going to develop a superbowl winning team.  The new path might be a complete bust, but it give you a shot at achieving greatness.
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dolphins4life
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« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2019, 03:15:12 am »

I think the philosophy at work is that there is no difference between 2-14 and 8-8.  Neither makes the playoffs.  Or a two year stretch where you go 8-8 twice is inferior two a two year stretch where one season you win the super bowl and the other you go 2-14.  Even if both situations have the same two year total game win total. 

Keeping Gase might have gotten them a winning season, but he wasnít going to develop a superbowl winning team.  The new path might be a complete bust, but it give you a shot at achieving greatness.

Every season, your goal should be the Super Bowl.

Can you imagine if this worked this way in business?

"Ok guys, this is our first week open in our product making business."  We are rebuilding, so this year, we will only make fifty percent of our products correctly.  The rest, it's okay if we screw up on"
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MyGodWearsAHoodie
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« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2019, 10:38:19 am »

Every season, your goal should be the Super Bowl.

Can you imagine if this worked this way in business?

"Ok guys, this is our first week open in our product making business."  We are rebuilding, so this year, we will only make fifty percent of our products correctly.  The rest, it's okay if we screw up on"

You are absolutely right no business ever takes a long term approach.  A department store absolutely will not tolerate losses in January.  Doesnít matter if they make $100 million dollars in the fourth quarter if the has a $1 dollar loss they shut down the business rather than prepare for the christmas rush.  That is why nobody goes into business willing to tolerate losses initially.  If a business canít be profitable from day one, it is not worth opening.  No business will launch a new product line if initial cost will not be recouped with profits on day one.

Your whole fucking premise is fucked up.  There is rational arguments for why taking a long term plan makes sense, and there are rational arguments for why it is better to take a win now approach.  And it can be interesting to discuss that with others. But youíre comments are so stupid they just pollute good discussion with incoherent ramblings.  Please stop.
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Pappy13
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« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2019, 11:18:15 am »

The new path might be a complete bust, but it give you a shot at achieving greatness.
This is what I absolutely disagree with. I don't think it gives you any better shot at achieving greatness then just trying to improve year over year with the team you have. In fact I think it's more of a desperation attempt at greatness rather than a real shot at greatness. I'm hearing that this plan is mostly the brainchild of the owner who said that all he wants is a franchise QB and he doesn't care how he gets it. Once the franchise QB is found THEN they will try to win a SB. That's the EXACT type of thinking that I'm opposed to. In my opinion just because you acquire a franchise QB doesn't mean you can build a team around him. In fact if you acquire that franchise QB because you are the worst team in the league I think that's an extremely difficult proposition. It works from time to time, but most of the "franchise QB's" picked at the top of the draft never become champions. I think it's more likely to have an average team and find a QB in the middle of the first round or even later that takes you to a championship and becomes your franchise QB.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2019, 11:23:07 am by Pappy13 » Logged

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MyGodWearsAHoodie
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« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2019, 11:27:46 am »

This is what I absolutely disagree with. I don't think it gives you any better shot at achieving greatness then just trying to improve year over year with the team you have. In fact I think it's more of a desperation attempt at greatness rather than a real shot at greatness. I'm hearing that this plan is mostly the brainchild of the owner who said that all he wants is a franchise QB and he doesn't care how he gets it. Once the franchise QB is found THEN they will try to win a SB. That's the EXACT type of thinking that I'm opposed to. In my opinion just because you acquire a franchise QB doesn't mean you can build a team around him. In fact if you acquire that franchise QB because you are the worst team in the league I think that's an extremely difficult proposition. It works from time to time, but most of the "franchise QB's" picked at the top of the draft never become champions.

I guess that depends on what you think ďthe planĒ is.  If ďthe planĒ is to tank so Miami will have a high draft pick for a QB in 2020 I agree it a poor plan.  If ďthe planĒ is to simply put a priority on developing long term players and taking chances on young player while passing on  FA vets that are expensive, more likely to decline than breakout and are unlikely to be still be a productive part of the team in 3 years.  I think the plan is solid.

The team trading for Rosen suggests the plan is the latter.
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Pappy13
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« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2019, 11:38:02 am »

The team trading for Rosen suggests the plan is the latter.
I think that's the backup plan that was put in place when Rosen fell into their lap. They weren't planning for that to happen and it sure as heck has not replaced the "tank for Tua" plan. That's still in effect.

Note: I'm using the "Tank for Tua" plan loosely here. I don't really think that's what they are doing, however I do think they are making finding a franchise QB the priority and to do that they are making the necessary cap space by cutting expensive veterans and finding dirt cheap replacements and stockpiling draft choices. Once the QB is in place the assumption is then they will rebuild the roster with the draft choices and cap space. That's what you are selling Hoodie as a solid plan and it certainly sounds plausible that it could work, but the odds are against it in my opinion.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2019, 11:45:50 am by Pappy13 » Logged

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MyGodWearsAHoodie
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« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2019, 12:41:46 pm »

In the NFL the QB is the most important position.  Having a great QB doesnít guarantee a SB.  (see Dan Marino). but at the very least you need a very good QB.  You donít need some one as good as Peyton, but the bare minimum is probably Eli, drop much below that and no matter what else you have you canít win it all.  So making finding the franchise QB is the top priority of any team.

Rosen might be the guy.  Tannehill had enough opportunities to show he wasnít. No point in spending big money on FA defensive players until you know you have that QB.  Once you know you have the QB make a big splash in FA, trade picks away, etc.
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Pappy13
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« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2019, 05:32:47 pm »

In the NFL the QB is the most important position.  Having a great QB doesnít guarantee a SB.  (see Dan Marino). but at the very least you need a very good QB.
Very good QB's aren't all that hard to find. Rosen just might be one. We certainly didn't have to fire the entire staff and jettison several expensive players for draft picks and cap space for that. All I'm saying is that they could have very well just kept Gase, did pretty much EXACTLY what they did in the draft, acquired Rosen and still had a shot at being a 10-6 team or better next year and who knows what beyond that. Again it's not that what they did is a bad plan, it's that it wasn't the ONLY plan and it certainly wasn't the only GOOD plan. I thought it was a knee jerk reaction to not living up to expectations mostly by the owner. He was tired of being mediocre, I get that. Let's see how well he deals with being bad for a few years.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2019, 05:42:05 pm by Pappy13 » Logged

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dolphins4life
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« Reply #14 on: May 17, 2019, 08:55:04 pm »

In the NFL the QB is the most important position.  Having a great QB doesnít guarantee a SB.  (see Dan Marino). but at the very least you need a very good QB.  You donít need some one as good as Peyton, but the bare minimum is probably Eli, drop much below that and no matter what else you have you canít win it all.  So making finding the franchise QB is the top priority of any team.

Rosen might be the guy.  Tannehill had enough opportunities to show he wasnít. No point in spending big money on FA defensive players until you know you have that QB.  Once you know you have the QB make a big splash in FA, trade picks away, etc.

Are you saying Marino was a great quarterback?

That contradicts what you implied earlier about how his failure to win the Super Bowl was all on him.

Are you saying a player can be great, and still be a failure?

Also, I remember a saying that 85% of all businesses fail within the first three months.

Finally, in football, you can't make long term plans, as there is FAR too much unpredictability. 

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