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Author Topic: Miami's final standing  (Read 275 times)
BuccaneerBrad
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« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2019, 03:08:46 pm »

^^^^^You're nuts if you think we didn't lose much in Minkah. He's an elite player that would still be here if we didn't strip our team down to practice squad players. No way in hell we draft someone even close to his talents with the Pitt pick.

Or if you used him correctly.   He was forced into playing a position that didn't cater to his strong suit.
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Tenshot13
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« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2019, 03:48:42 pm »

^^^^^You're nuts if you think we didn't lose much in Minkah. He's an elite player that would still be here if we didn't strip our team down to practice squad players. No way in hell we draft someone even close to his talents with the Pitt pick.
We got a 1st rounder back for a guy that doesn't want to be here.  We have a culture here he didn't want to buy into.  It sucked to have to get rid of him, hell I've compared him to Ed Reed, but he had to go.  Trust the process...he didn't.  It's that simple.
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Spider-Dan
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« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2019, 04:58:03 pm »

With Tunsil, you make that trade even if you want to win the Superbowl that year. Laremy is a good left tackle, not a great one. Two 1st Round plus a 2nd and they take Stills off our hands? You always make that trade if you are Miami.
Tunsil was a top 5 pick that fell to MIA due to shenanigans.

Given the difficulty MIA has had in drafting offensive linemen, I would think the value of a "good" LT (still on a rookie salary!) would be obvious.  MIA is highly unlikely to replace Tunsil with the picks they got from HOU, leaving them net negative.
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Spider-Dan
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« Reply #18 on: December 04, 2019, 05:01:33 pm »

I see a lot of sour grapes in here.  Minkah trade had to happen, he didn't want to be here and I don't want a player who quits on his team on his second year in the league.
He didn't want to be here for the same reason Clowney is not in a Dolphins uniform right now: the team is overtly tanking.

The pro-tank faction never seems to acknowledge that side of the equation.  If this team were trying to be competitive, they would have Clowney and Minkah likely would have stayed.  Minkah's disgruntlement didn't just spring forth out of nowhere; being mismanaged by a team that is actively trying to lose creates that situation.
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Fau Teixeira
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« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2019, 05:35:44 pm »

^^^^^You're nuts if you think we didn't lose much in Minkah. He's an elite player that would still be here if we didn't strip our team down to practice squad players. No way in hell we draft someone even close to his talents with the Pitt pick.

next guy up .. maybe safety just isn't a 1st round type of position and we'd rather have a RT from his draft spot
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Phishfan
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« Reply #20 on: December 04, 2019, 06:50:17 pm »

I've said this before, when discussing the Minkah trade you have to look at the player Miami had and not the player Pittsburgh has now. Their production isn't comparable.
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Spider-Dan
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« Reply #21 on: December 04, 2019, 10:28:56 pm »

I've said this before, when discussing the Minkah trade you have to look at the player Miami had and not the player Pittsburgh has now.
I disagree.

great player in college -> average player in MIA -> great player in PIT (so far)

Who is to blame for that lack of production in MIA?  The same people who were the source of the player's grievances in the first place, and the same people who likely said, "Next man up, we don't coach up disgruntled players around here, we dispose of them.  That is The Patriot Way."

I've said it before, and I'll keep saying it as long as it keeps happening:

Always remember that the only things Belichick teaches his disciples are:

1) the media is your enemy, so treat them like an enemy
2) all players are expendable; make that clear at every opportunity

In other words, it is perfectly rational to both a) blame Flores for Minkah's lack of production and b) blame Flores for being unwilling or unable to coach Minkah into buying in.  The guy was a safety coach in NE, and he can't get through to a DB?
« Last Edit: December 04, 2019, 10:36:21 pm by Spider-Dan » Logged

Tenshot13
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« Reply #22 on: December 05, 2019, 07:37:17 am »

next guy up .. maybe safety just isn't a 1st round type of position and we'd rather have a RT from his draft spot
I agree with this, safety isn't as important IMO.
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fyo
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« Reply #23 on: December 05, 2019, 08:49:15 am »

In other words, it is perfectly rational to both a) blame Flores for Minkah's lack of production and b) blame Flores for being unwilling or unable to coach Minkah into buying in.  The guy was a safety coach in NE, and he can't get through to a DB?

Regarding a) Minkah played TWO GAMES under Flores. On a team that absolutely sucked and hadn't started to gel at all. Blaming Flores for Minkah's lack of production those two games is absurd.
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CF DolFan
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« Reply #24 on: December 05, 2019, 08:49:40 am »

Mike Westhoff nailed it this morning IMO. He said Miami is doing a lot of great things but they completely missed on getting rid of Tunsil and Minkah. Said there is no way in hell they draft players close in talent let alone equal to what they had. Stated he watches a lot of college football and those players aren't out there for those pics.
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fyo
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« Reply #25 on: December 05, 2019, 09:05:10 am »

^ Agree with Minkah, I think they should have kept him regardless. Even if they had to bench him for attitude issues.

I do not agree with Tunsil. Not only did we get a huge haul for him, he just hadn't shown much at tackle for Miami. He was good, but nowhere near elite or even great. I certainly believed (and continue to believe) he has the potential to be more, but he hasn't shown it yet. He has played very well at times in Houston, but he's been injured and serious penalty machine (2nd most penalized player in the league) - plus he's playing behind a very good quarterback who's posted > 100 passer ratings his first two years in the season.
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Fau Teixeira
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« Reply #26 on: December 05, 2019, 09:05:37 am »

and that's fine CF but tunsil turned into 2 1sts and a 2nd .. i'll take 3 guys that are 80% of tunsil over 1 100% tunsil

and minkah was a political move .. the dolphins could have played hardball and said .. screw you .. you're under contract .. get your ass out there and play the game and he could have had a miraculous "back injury" like jalen ramsey that cleared up as soon as he was traded.
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EDGECRUSHER
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« Reply #27 on: December 05, 2019, 10:22:00 am »

Mike Westhoff nailed it this morning IMO. He said Miami is doing a lot of great things but they completely missed on getting rid of Tunsil and Minkah. Said there is no way in hell they draft players close in talent let alone equal to what they had. Stated he watches a lot of college football and those players aren't out there for those pics.

I think we all agree on Minkah that it was a bad trade and an organizational failure. Wouldn't be AS bad if the league wasn't so bad and the Steelers weren't so lucky, but unless it was a Top 5 pick it was bad.

However, Tunsil was just solid, that's it. Two 1st rounders and a 2nd rounder? You make that trade every day. That was an amazing trade for our front office that really helps our rebuild by adding good players all over the field.
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Tenshot13
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« Reply #28 on: December 05, 2019, 10:38:15 am »

I don't see the trade with Minkah as a "bad trade".  It's not ideal, ideal would be him buying into the process, sticking with the team and getting a big contract like Howard got.  He didn't want to be here, and we got something back for him, I'm happy we got a 1st rounder for cutting our losses.  We had a culture of overpaid players that didn't play to their potential.  It seems there are the "rebuild people" and the "build off what we had" people on this board.  I'm completely okay that we blew it up and are building from square one.
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Phishfan
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« Reply #29 on: December 05, 2019, 12:34:22 pm »

I disagree.

great player in college -> average player in MIA -> great player in PIT (so far)

Who is to blame for that lack of production in MIA?  The same people who were the source of the player's grievances in the first place, and the same people who likely said, "Next man up, we don't coach up disgruntled players around here, we dispose of them.  That is The Patriot Way."

I've said it before, and I'll keep saying it as long as it keeps happening:

In other words, it is perfectly rational to both a) blame Flores for Minkah's lack of production and b) blame Flores for being unwilling or unable to coach Minkah into buying in.  The guy was a safety coach in NE, and he can't get through to a DB?

You are misunderstanding me a little. All I mean is you can't judge the value of the Minkah trade based on Pittsburgh production. Regardless of who or why, Miami couldn't get that out of him.
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