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Author Topic: Wage debate  (Read 6479 times)
dolphins4life
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« on: December 15, 2019, 10:50:51 pm »

My state, Massachuetts, is gradually increasing it's minimum wage up to $15 an hour.  It's now $12, and will be going up to $12.75 next year.  I work part time on the weekends at a grocery store, where this applies.  Our state used to mandate time and a half for Sunday employees in retail.  The mandate is now time and a quarter.  When, it hits $15, the mandate will be dropped.  My store, for now, has kept time and a half.  I have been trying to take advantage of it the best I can.  I have tried to work as many Sunday hours as I can, which is why I haven't followed the games much. 

I worry though, if our state will collapse because of the high wage increase.  I don't think minimum wage jobs were intended to jobs you support a family on, or even yourself on.  I think Obama instilled the attitude in this country of "If you want kids, have them, and everybody else will take care of you".  I think this is an extension of that attitude.

What do you people think?
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BuccaneerBrad
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« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2019, 11:24:20 pm »

I don't think minimum wage jobs were intended to jobs you support a family on, or even yourself on. 

You are correct in this statement.  Minimum wage was never intended to be a living wage and jobs that pay it were never meant to be jobs that you spend your entire career working.   I think it's wrong to raise the minimum wage that high because then all other jobs will demand a pay increase as well, which could very well put some companies out of business. 

Minimum wage jobs were meant to be held by your average goofy high school student who is learning what it's like to work and develop proper work habits while hanging out with their equally goofy high school friends.  If John McBurgerflipper wants to be paid more than minimum wage, he needs to bring more than minimal job skills to the table.
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dolphins4life
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« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2019, 11:47:30 pm »

You are correct in this statement.  Minimum wage was never intended to be a living wage and jobs that pay it were never meant to be jobs that you spend your entire career working.   I think it's wrong to raise the minimum wage that high because then all other jobs will demand a pay increase as well, which could very well put some companies out of business. 

Minimum wage jobs were meant to be held by your average goofy high school student who is learning what it's like to work and develop proper work habits while hanging out with their equally goofy high school friends.  If John McBurgerflipper wants to be paid more than minimum wage, he needs to bring more than minimal job skills to the table.

They are also jobs for people who can't better job skills due to disabilities, and need family support.  Also for married couples where one partner works full time and the other part time due to children.

They can also be hold over jobs while you are looking for full time work.

In my case, it's a side job.  My main job is in healthcare.
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Spider-Dan
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« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2019, 02:28:51 am »

I don't think minimum wage jobs were intended to jobs you support a family on, or even yourself on.  I think Obama instilled the attitude in this country of "If you want kids, have them, and everybody else will take care of you".  I think this is an extension of that attitude.
The minimum wage only affects people who work, so I don't see what this has to do with wanting other people to take care of you.

In fact, right now the US taxpayer subsidizes many businesses (like Wal-Mart), who pay their full-time employees so little that they still qualify for poverty assistance like food stamps and Medicaid.  I don't think that we should be using taxpayer money to increase profits for corporations.

As far as the "costs" of increasing the minimum wage: low-income families are MUCH more likely to spend their income rather than saving it, so the probable outcome of increasing the minimum wage is that local businesses receive a lot more customers, which allows them to hire more people, etc.
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Fau Teixeira
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« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2019, 08:52:36 am »

The assumptions going on here are just wrong to begin with. There's no such thing as a "wage that wasn't intended as a living wage" that's bullshit. if you work full time, you should earn a living wage. period .. end of story, no exceptions.
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CF DolFan
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« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2019, 10:07:20 am »

The assumptions going on here are just wrong to begin with. There's no such thing as a "wage that wasn't intended as a living wage" that's bullshit. if you work full time, you should earn a living wage. period .. end of story, no exceptions.
Sorry. If you want a job that pays minimum wage because you don't want to achieve skills to make more ... that's on you. It's a choice. Every trade has a way of working their way up. No way in hell a job meant for high schoolers should come with top pay, vacation, and retirement. I'm not paying someone $400 a month to cut my yard so they can have benefits. That's just stupid.
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Fau Teixeira
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« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2019, 10:18:30 am »

Sorry. If you want a job that pays minimum wage because you don't want to achieve skills to make more ... that's on you. It's a choice. Every trade has a way of working their way up. No way in hell a job meant for high schoolers should come with top pay, vacation, and retirement. I'm not paying someone $400 a month to cut my yard so they can have benefits. That's just stupid.

First off .. there are no full time jobs meant for high schoolers. School is their full time job. McDonalds is open when high school is in session. Companies won't ever volunteer to do the right thing, Desperate people don't stand for their rights because they fear other desperate people will take their job. This is because people like you assume all choices are equal. And sometimes when faced with a set of bad choices, you have to chose the least bad one. How would you feel about a general strike? no-one worked until there was a legal living wage. I'm pretty sure you'd cross that picket line, because "choice". When you're the one making the choice harder.

second off .. if you have someone cutting your lawn full time .. 40 hours a week .. then you need to pay them a living wage to do that. Unless you have a full time gardener, maybe don't toss that straw man out there.

benefits are a sham.. It's a lie told to workers to get them to take less money. So these companies say instead of giving you $1000 in cash ..we'll give you $1000 in "benefits" then they turn around and cut those "benefits" to $800 . .they work the profit from both ends.

the only benefit i want out of my work is cold hard cash .. $$$ .. lets move this country into the 20th century where health care isn't dependent on your employer.  No country in the world does that .. because it sucks. Universal health care, divorced from employment. Lets not imprison people into jobs because when faced with the prospect of upward mobility or the prospect of not getting your insulin, that's not a choice.
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CF DolFan
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« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2019, 10:32:10 am »

LOL ... When high schoolers are in session ... it's wide open for college kids and senior citizens ... both of whom work at places like McDonalds and Wal-Mart.

In my whole life I've never met a person who was forced to work in any job but yet I've seen many people make some sacrifices to get ahead in their job status to improve life for their family.  I'm sure I'd much rather have been working at Blockbuster than being a loborer on a bridge crew or a grunt on a roofing crew but that's not an option in the real world.
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pondwater
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« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2019, 12:34:57 pm »

the only benefit i want out of my work is cold hard cash .. $$$ .. lets move this country into the 20th century where health care isn't dependent on your employer.  No country in the world does that .. because it sucks. Universal health care, divorced from employment. Lets not imprison people into jobs because when faced with the prospect of upward mobility or the prospect of not getting your insulin, that's not a choice.
I would tend to agree with this mostly. Healthcare shouldn't be tied to employment. 3 things that I think would fix healthcare would be to allow competition across state lines, everyone is eligible and pays the same for the same level policy and coverages, and every procedure and drug should have a cap on it's cost from Doctors to the insurance companies. 

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dolphins4life
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« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2019, 01:08:39 pm »

Sorry. If you want a job that pays minimum wage because you don't want to achieve skills to make more ... that's on you. It's a choice. Every trade has a way of working their way up. No way in hell a job meant for high schoolers should come with top pay, vacation, and retirement. I'm not paying someone $400 a month to cut my yard so they can have benefits. That's just stupid.

My part time job does offer a 401k
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MyGodWearsAHoodie
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« Reply #10 on: December 16, 2019, 01:51:56 pm »

I would tend to agree with this mostly. Healthcare shouldn't be tied to employment. 3 things that I think would fix healthcare would be to allow competition across state lines, everyone is eligible and pays the same for the same level policy and coverages, and every procedure and drug should have a cap on it's cost from Doctors to the insurance companies. 



Did someone hack pondwater's account?  A national heath system instead of 50 individual state programs.  Fixed pricing of insurance premiums.  Fixed prices for procedures and drug prices.   

I don't disagree with any of it, but that is socialized medicine and sounds more like a spider proposal than pondwater. 
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Fau Teixeira
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« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2019, 02:12:50 pm »

Did someone hack pondwater's account?  A national heath system instead of 50 individual state programs.  Fixed pricing of insurance premiums.  Fixed prices for procedures and drug prices.   

I don't disagree with any of it, but that is socialized medicine and sounds more like a spider proposal than pondwater. 

at that point tho. what's the point of an insurance company middleman ? fixed prices in a national system. .. why allow for a profit motive in the middle there with absolutely no benefit whatsoever.
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BuccaneerBrad
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« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2019, 02:47:49 pm »

Did someone hack pondwater's account?  A national heath system instead of 50 individual state programs.  Fixed pricing of insurance premiums.  Fixed prices for procedures and drug prices.  

I don't disagree with any of it, but that is socialized medicine and sounds more like a spider proposal than pondwater.  

No, it's competition which is the very core of capitalism.   Why should a person like myself, a Florida resident, not be allowed to buy health insurance from Big Sky Healthcare in Montana?  Doing that would increase competition among insurance companies and as a result, healthcare premiums would go down.  
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pondwater
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« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2019, 02:53:32 pm »

Did someone hack pondwater's account?  A national heath system instead of 50 individual state programs.  Fixed pricing of insurance premiums.  Fixed prices for procedures and drug prices.   

I don't disagree with any of it, but that is socialized medicine and sounds more like a spider proposal than pondwater. 

at that point tho. what's the point of an insurance company middleman ? fixed prices in a national system. .. why allow for a profit motive in the middle there with absolutely no benefit whatsoever.
Hacked? No, what you guys don't understand that I agree with Republicans and Democrats on certain issues. However, it's not a national health system that I'm talking about. It's competition. If Blue Cross has a certain level plan for $300 a month and Cigna has a plan for $280 with better benefits. Then assuming it's available to everyone in the country and each company has to charge everyone the same for the same plans. Then Blue Cross is going to lose market share and have to revamp their premiums and benefits to be more competitive. I'm certainly not talking about the government giving healthcare away to everyone. Everyone should have access and everyone should pay the same. If people can't afford their premiums they could implement some type of tax credits or subisidys based on income like they have now.

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pondwater
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« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2019, 03:00:15 pm »

No, it's competition which is the very core of capitalism.   Why should a person like myself, a Florida resident, not be allowed to buy health insurance from Big Sky Health in Montana?  Doing that would increase competition among insurance companies and as a result, healthcare premiums would go down. 
Correct. But for it to work you would have to charge everyone the same. Just like at Walmart, everyone pays the same for that can of beans. If people ain't buying your beans then you need to adjust your prices or people are going to buy a different brand.
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