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Author Topic: They all look alike  (Read 572 times)
CF DolFan
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« on: December 20, 2019, 08:36:01 am »

OK ... this may not go over well in this politically correct crowd but I found it kind of humorous that AI facial recognition is bad at identifying minorities.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-7811779/Massive-errors-facial-recognition-tech-US-study.html
'Racist' facial recognition technology used in law enforcement, banking and schools misidentifies African American and Asian people 100 times more often than whites, study shows
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MyGodWearsAHoodie
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« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2019, 08:53:35 am »

American AI facial recognition is bad at identifying minorities.



You left out an important word.  AI facial recognition software developed in Asian countries shows no such bias.

Bottom line is the white americans who developed the software didn’t care about having a robust program that would work well for everyone. 

You want to see this has a humorous joke that proves racism is acceptable because even computers are racist, when reality it just the systemic racism is being programmed into software that should be objective.
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Tenshot13
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« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2019, 09:04:22 am »

You left out an important word.  AI facial recognition software developed in Asian countries shows no such bias.

Bottom line is the white americans who developed the software didn’t care about having a robust program that would work well for everyone.  

You want to see this has a humorous joke that proves racism is acceptable because even computers are racist, when reality it just the systemic racism is being programmed into software that should be objective.
Can you provide the quote where it says White Americans developed this software?  I didn't see it anywhere.  I have a friend who was one of the first people to work on facial recognition software 10 years ago.  He was part of a team, and he was the only white person on a team of Indian people.  I think you're assuming a lot here, unless I legit missed the part where it says white people made this.
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CF DolFan
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cf_dolfan
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2019, 09:58:13 am »

Seems like Hoodie is grasping at straws I guess in order to appease to his white man guilt. Considering Microsoft is only about 42% white (and probably 75% liberal) it seems highly unlikely that only white people work on this software.
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MyGodWearsAHoodie
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« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2019, 10:19:32 am »

Seems like Hoodie is grasping at straws I guess in order to appease to his white man guilt. Considering Microsoft is only about 42% white (and probably 75% liberal) it seems highly unlikely that only white people work on this software.

People who work on the software is a mix.  The upper level executives that set priorities and the upper level decision makers at the companies and agencies that buy this software is mostly white.
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CF DolFan
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« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2019, 10:52:26 am »

 If most management is white then to have 42% would mean most of the working team is minorities.  So are you suggesting the white bosses directed minority staff to "not care about having a robust program that would work well for everyone" and only work for white people?  LOL ... Can honestly say that although crazy it's not the craziest thing I've heard this week.
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MyGodWearsAHoodie
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« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2019, 11:11:08 am »

If most management is white then to have 42% would mean most of the working team is minorities.  So are you suggesting the white bosses directed minority staff to "not care about having a robust program that would work well for everyone" and only work for white people?  LOL ... Can honestly say that although crazy it's not the craziest thing I've heard this week.

Chief engineer:  Software meets the project requirements of being 80% accurate on the test data provided.  However the test data provided is 80% causation, further analysis shows it is 95% accurate with whites but only 10%  accurate with minorities.  I would like to continue to refine the algorithms so it is at least 80% accurate with all ethnic groups and races.

Boss: How long would that take and how much would it cost?

Chief engineer: Three months and a half million dollars.

Boss: Software is fine. 

*Yeah that is totally unplausable*

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Tenshot13
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« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2019, 11:34:28 am »

Hoodie, you're insane. 
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Tenshot13
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« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2019, 01:29:02 pm »

I don't know why I bother with irrational people, but let's try to look at this logically...

First off, you negated a huge part of the article when saying Asians didn't have this problem:

Some algorithms developed in Asian countries produced similar accuracy rates for matching between Asian and Caucasian faces - which the researchers said suggests these disparities can be corrected.

Asians have the same problem with Caucasian faces.

Asian countries don't have this bias.  I'm going out on a limb and assuming the Asian countries are developing this software for the people in their countries.  I'm going to use China as an example.  91.51% of the population is Han Chinese, and 8.49% is minorities.  Japan is roughly 98% Japanese.  That means in Japans case, the "hit" rate of identifying a person by facial recognition is going to be higher, but they also only have one demographic to worry about almost exclusively.  Unlike Asian countries, the USA is made up of many different races and the percentages are larger for minorities.  To have a successful software, you want to have more "hits" on the accuracy of facial recognition.  In the USA, having more "hits" is going to associate with a higher accuracy of Caucasians, as they make up roughly 61% of the population.  That has nothing to do with systematic racism, and everything to do with proof of concept of the software, as a higher "hit" rate is going to associate with a more successful program.

But I guess it's easier for you to be a self hating white person and blame them for everything.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
« Last Edit: December 20, 2019, 01:33:39 pm by Tenshot13 » Logged
MyGodWearsAHoodie
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« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2019, 01:35:25 pm »

Except the Asian developed software works fine for whites as well.  No bias.  So it is technically feasible to have unbiased software.  USA companies just didn’t choose to care.

And the OP thinks this form of racism is humorous.  That is sick and disgusting. And says plenty about the OP.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2019, 01:38:31 pm by MyGodWearsAHoodie » Logged

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« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2019, 01:51:17 pm »

Except the Asian developed software works fine for whites as well.  No bias.  So it is technically feasible to have unbiased software.  USA companies just didn’t choose to care.

And the OP thinks this form of racism is humorous.  That is sick and disgusting. And says plenty about the OP.
I think it says more about you and your hate of all things white people, and that is far more glaring than any assumption you might have of calling CF "sick" and "disgusting".  What you really mean is CF is a racist.  Good to see things don't change and you still throw that around all cavalier.  No one gives a shit about your virtue signaling.  You immediately blamed white people with zero facts which I find "sick" and "disgusting".  You have to be one of the most ignorant people I've every come across.  At least with Spider, you'll get some sort of an intelligent discussion, even if it's from an extremist point of view, instead of absolute drivel.

As far as the tech goes, It may work fine for white people and Asians, but says nothing about the other races.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2019, 02:21:05 pm by Tenshot13 » Logged
MyGodWearsAHoodie
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« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2019, 02:26:27 pm »

What you really mean is CF is a racist.  

Yes, anyone who thinks it is “kinda humorous” that AA are 100 times more likely to be falsely identified as being a criminal than whites by law enforcement software is a racist.
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« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2019, 02:34:57 pm »

Yes, anyone who thinks it is “kinda humorous” that AA are 100 times more likely to be falsely identified as being a criminal than whites by law enforcement software is a racist.
Could be...the word could be is prevalent in that article.  That's not even what is "funny" about it.  What's "funny" is big tech companies, especially Microsoft, are known to be liberal.

https://fortune.com/2017/10/17/apple-amazon-2ndvote-political-leanings/

So a liberal company, you know the same politics you have, is racist.  What hypocrisy!  That IS funny.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2019, 02:38:14 pm by Tenshot13 » Logged
MyGodWearsAHoodie
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« Reply #13 on: December 20, 2019, 03:01:38 pm »

Could be...the word could be is prevalent in that article.  That's not even what is "funny" about it.  What's "funny" is big tech companies, especially Microsoft, are known to be liberal.

https://fortune.com/2017/10/17/apple-amazon-2ndvote-political-leanings/

So a liberal company, you know the same politics you have, is racist.  What hypocrisy!  That IS funny.


The thread title is “they all look alike.”

I am not cavalier in calling people racist, but...

If you it is funny that AA are 100x more likely to be falsely accused (as opposed to tragic or disgusting) than you are a racist.

If you consider the war that ended slavery to be an unjust act of “northern aggression “ than you are a racist.

If you consider Nathan Forrest Bedford a hero worthy of having schools named after an oppose naming schools after MLK than you are a racist.

If you feel there were “good people” among the neo-nazis in Charlottesville than you are a racist. 

Tolerance doesn’t mean tolerating racism.  It means tolerance towards others of different ethnicities, not tolerating those who promote racism or find racism humorous or who honor racism. 
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« Reply #14 on: December 20, 2019, 03:16:45 pm »

The thread title is “they all look alike.”

I am not cavalier in calling people racist, but...

If you it is funny that AA are 100x more likely to be falsely accused (as opposed to tragic or disgusting) than you are a racist.

If you consider the war that ended slavery to be an unjust act of “northern aggression “ than you are a racist.

If you consider Nathan Forrest Bedford a hero worthy of having schools named after an oppose naming schools after MLK than you are a racist.

If you feel there were “good people” among the neo-nazis in Charlottesville than you are a racist. 

Tolerance doesn’t mean tolerating racism.  It means tolerance towards others of different ethnicities, not tolerating those who promote racism or find racism humorous or who honor racism. 
I don't know what is in CF's mind, he can defend himself from here on out.  You pilling on a bunch of unrelated talking points aside from the first three lines, doesn't make your bias hate for white people any less disgusting.
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