Astros hammered in cheating scandal

[Spider-Dan]

New reports coming out that Altuve and Bregman wore buzzers underneath their jerseys to signal to them what pitch was coming. A few photos show what could be a buzzer and we all probably saw by now Altuve telling his teammates not to touch his jersey after the ALCS Homerun. Trevor Bauer spoke up and said he heard rumors from several different sources about it.

Figures the pitchers wouldn't keep shut about this. If true, this has to be a year long suspension at the minimum. Awards and titles were won because of this shit.

Suspension for whom... the players?  Not gonna happen, and if it did that would potentially be a labor issue.

If you are at work and your boss - with apparent support all the way through the GM - tells you to cheat (but not break the law), what are you supposed to do?

[EDGECRUSHER]

Suspension for whom... the players?  Not gonna happen, and if it did that would potentially be a labor issue.

If you are at work and your boss - with apparent support all the way through the GM - tells you to cheat (but not break the law), what are you supposed to do?

They wouldn't go unpunished if the league had concrete proof that a player like Altuve was wearing a wire to know what pitches were coming. I don't even think the MLBPA would fight that one as it's own members, namely pitchers, would be pissed at him for that.

Of course, if every team did this then maybe you're right and they fight it to keep it a secret.

[Spider-Dan]

Again, if your manager is telling you to wear a buzzer, and he has support through the top of the organization, what are your options as a player?  "I was just following orders" may not be a valid excuse for committing crimes, but it damn sure is a valid excuse when it comes to your boss telling you how to do your job.

[MaineDolFan]

Without agreeing or disagreeing with this statement, I would just like to point out that taking that position is a choice by the league office.  For example, the NCAA vacates titles all the time without knowing 1) or 2).

MLB certainly has the ability to vacate titles for egregious cheating if they want to.  I think the more important factor is that powers that be - from the league office to the other owners - don't believe these particular offenses warrant doing so.

And that's why I've said that half of the teams in the league would love to switch places with the Astros right now.

They could. I’m trying to think of a time a professional team has done this.

Once that standards is set is hard to “un-set” it.

Look, I’m all for whatever is best for baseball here; not the laundry.

[MaineDolFan]

Let’s get to the buzzer thing. I’ve taken a deep dive into this.

The “niece” account on Twitter, from my sources, are saying it’s actually another player. An active player, ratting our this situation. And there are whistle blowers (players), again - according to my sources - in numerous cities.

IF this buzzer situation is true this is very, very bad. I can’t wrap my head around how bad, bad; this rabbit hole has no end. I know it has a mid-point of a franchise (the Yankees) with a case of financial injury because they lost a game in an unfair way when their multiple-million dollar closer threw a pitch that another player seemed to sit on.

At the end of the day MLB is a business. For the owners and the players. And this buzzer issue, if true, could make the Chicago Black Sox or Pete Rose look like amateur hour.

Me? I’m hoping to keep digging and find out it’s not true. MLB said they didn’t find anything. This is the same entity who looked the other way years ago after the strike when home run records fell and people streamed back into the park because of steroids. “We investigated and didn’t find anything.” They did, conveniently, years later, because they have a lot to lose here.

This is a lot bigger than the Houston Astros.

[EDGECRUSHER]

That niece account broke the news of Beltran's hiring and firing so it's someone who has some connections. Definitely not his niece so you're right that it is probably a player or former player.

Without a whistleblower like Mike Fiers, it's almost impossible to find proof of the buzzer outside of photographs of wires on the players and the obvious lies like "I'm shy, don't expose my jersey". Certainly can't convict or suspend players based on that stuff. The Astros have not earned any benefit of the doubt and to me it seems very obvious that this story is also true.

MLB is more than happy to stop looking into this but just as they "suggested" these teams clean house, I'm fairly certain they told the Astros if they even so much as fake a bunt going forward, they will be punished so much they won't even be able to field a AA team. Going to be very interesting to see their Win/Loss record this season.

[MaineDolFan]

^+1

Ultimately, this.

MLB, all of MLB, has a vested interest in this going away. I'm positive people in the Dodgers and Yankees front offices are up in arms.  It's better for them, long term, this gets swept under the rug.  As the revenue stream in MLB rolls downhill from large to small it's best for all teams this happens.

I'm quite sure MLB knows where "all the bodies are buried," they are hoping something comes up and captures America's attention and this goes away, quickly. 

This is not without precedent, this has been going on forever.  Teams are finding ways to use technology (or, in the Astros case, trashcans) to further their cause.  The 1951 World Series the Dodgers were thought to be stealing signs as well (never proven).  I mean, it's part of the game.   

[Spider-Dan]

So as best I can tell, this uproar over the buzzer is strictly because a buzzer is a form of technology?

I mean, it's not like the buzzer is cheating more than the trash can drum.  (If you haven't seen the video of the trash can, I encourage you to; it is the most blatant cheating I've ever seen.)  And allegedly, HOU also had people in the bullpen giving signs to players to indicate the pitch (there is also some pretty damning video of this too, where Astros players consistently look to the same spot of the field right before a pitch).

The cheating is already incredibly blatant, so I'm not sure why the buzzer would change things.

[EDGECRUSHER]

So as best I can tell, this uproar over the buzzer is strictly because a buzzer is a form of technology?

I mean, it's not like the buzzer is cheating more than the trash can drum.  (If you haven't seen the video of the trash can, I encourage you to; it is the most blatant cheating I've ever seen.)  And allegedly, HOU also had people in the bullpen giving signs to players to indicate the pitch (there is also some pretty damning video of this too, where Astros players consistently look to the same spot of the field right before a pitch).

The cheating is already incredibly blatant, so I'm not sure why the buzzer would change things.

Yes, the buzzer was used to tell them whether a breaking ball was coming or not. Allegedly. Same as the trashcans although not nearly as obvious to everyone else. If you are a runner on 2nd and you see a sign and you signal to the batter, that's just gamesmanship. Every single team does that and it's fine. But when you use cameras? That's a problem.

Astros are going to get their home ballpark bugged by MLB like they were the FBI.

[Spider-Dan]

The cameras were used with the trash cans, too.

It just seems to me that once you have the camera system (the real problem) in place, whether you're using a trash can drum, or hand signs, or a buzzer to communicate the camera-stolen pitch is not particularly significant.  But apparently, the buzzer makes it much worse...?

[CF DolFan]

I can see how that is a different level. The trash can is using what you have. You actually have to go way out of your way to set up a hidden buzzer.

[EDGECRUSHER]

The cameras were used with the trash cans, too.

It just seems to me that once you have the camera system (the real problem) in place, whether you're using a trash can drum, or hand signs, or a buzzer to communicate the camera-stolen pitch is not particularly significant.  But apparently, the buzzer makes it much worse...?

No, you're right. It's the same principal just different technology.

[MaineDolFan]

So as best I can tell, this uproar over the buzzer is strictly because a buzzer is a form of technology?

I mean, it's not like the buzzer is cheating more than the trash can drum.  (If you haven't seen the video of the trash can, I encourage you to; it is the most blatant cheating I've ever seen.)  And allegedly, HOU also had people in the bullpen giving signs to players to indicate the pitch (there is also some pretty damning video of this too, where Astros players consistently look to the same spot of the field right before a pitch).

The cheating is already incredibly blatant, so I'm not sure why the buzzer would change things.

I think it shows the level of the cheating on a different plane.  To have someone beating on a trashcan is one thing, that's something a person can romanticize out of a different time.  To think of a syndicate of electronics were numerous people are communicating and ultimately "talking" to the batter, real time, at the plate, is another.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

The cheating is already incredibly blatant, so I'm not sure why the buzzer would change things.

The level of planning and involvement. 

“Hey Joe if you know it is going to be a breaking ball let me know”

“How?”

“I dunno ... bang on this trash can”.

-VS-

Involving purchasing equipment and wiring up a player.

I would compare this to bugging an opposing teams locker room vs realizing if the coach is screaming you can hear him in the equipment closet and listen in. 

[CF DolFan]

The level of planning and involvement. 

“Hey Joe if you know it is going to be a breaking ball let me know”

“How?”

“I dunno ... bang on this trash can”.

-VS-

Involving purchasing equipment and wiring up a player.

I would compare this to bugging an opposing teams locker room vs realizing if the coach is screaming you can hear him in the equipment closet and listen in. 

They had to seek someone to come up with the technology. Regular people have no idea in hell how to find and wire up a wireless buzzer to someone.