Give me Herbert over Tua.

[EDGECRUSHER]

It's just dangerous to trade up with the Lions until the Redskins pick. You don't want to have the Redskins take Tua themselves or trade their pick for a team who wants Tua and know you just threw away an extra 1st rounder for nothing. So, we are either trading up with the Redskins now or waiting on draft day to trade up with the Lions, no way we do anything else before the draft.

[Pappy13]

I group reading a defense and going through progressions together, as you need one with the other, I think most people would.

I would just call it reading the defense and not really going through progressions, I think that's the main difference I have.

Usually a play is drawn for a primary route, with the other routes taking coverage away from that player so they are more open, but that depends on the defense.

I disagree somewhat. Some plays are like that like screens and such where you are going to throw it to the primary receiver almost without fail. That's not really what we are talking about here. What we are talking about are plays where the receivers have multiple route combinations depending upon how the defense plays them. That's the typical pass play where the QB is taking a 3 or 5 step drop and reading the defense.

Yes, a QB has to be able to read a defense which in turn gives the QB the opportunity to read who is open, i.e. progressions.  Man vs. Zone, a different receiver will be open depending on the defense, which I agree is very important.

I somewhat disagree again. I don't think a QB is looking at who is open, he's determining who is GOING to be open and when. He's doing that by looking at the defense, not looking at his WR's. He knows the receivers routes already, he doesn't need to look at them to determine if they are going to be open, rather he's looking at the defensive players and reading those players and what they are doing. Do they have their back to the QB? Are they taking away the inside or the outside? Do they have help or on an island, etc etc. Based on that information they know which WR SHOULD be covered and which WR SHOULD be open at some point in the route tree and when that will be and that's what makes their decision as to who they are going to throw to. If they wait till they see the receiver open, it's too late by then, the ball already has to be gone so that it's arriving at the time and the place where the reciever is open.

There is a progression of reads though, say your primary is doubled, you need to go to your second or third receiver.

This happens at the snap or shortly thereafter and honestly the QB doesn't really need to look at his receivers to know this, they know based on the coverage and they can see that by scanning the whole field, not by looking at one receiver.

A good QB can read a defense, where the safeties will be and such, and go through their reads in a second, basing that off of the defense.

Exactly. There's no progression looking at their own receivers, they are reading the defense with their eyes and they don't need to look at their receivers. This is why I say progressions is not really what they do. The only time they really need to look at the receivers is once they have read the defense and decided where to go with the football, they need to make sure the receiver read the defense the same way and is on the same page and is running the route they expect, hasn't fallen down or been knocked off their route, the throwing lane isn't blocked or something like that because sometimes that happens and THAT'S the only time they need to adjust where they are going with the football. Everything else has already been decided at that point.

In my opinion a QB who has to go through progressions is not really reading the defense and picking the optimum player to throw to, he's looking to see which one is open because he really hasn't diagnosed the play and doesn't really know which one is gonna be open based on the coverage. That's not a strength, that's a weakness in my opinion. The guy that has to go through 2 or 3 receivers to find the right guy to throw to is not really the guy you want. You want the guy who's able to pick out the right guy without having to go through the WR's 1 by 1. In my opinion Herbert is better at picking the right guy more often then Love is which is why you don't see him moving from receiver to receiver. In my opinion Herbert is better then Love at reading the defense which is why he seldom has to go away from his read. That seems to be confirmed by higher completion percentage and lower interception numbers.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

That seems to be confirmed by higher completion percentage and lower interception numbers.

In my opinion that is the crux.  Do you really care why the QB has a higher competition rate and lower interceptions.  If it is because with reads or because he is better at reading defenses and needs to do less reads or it is because he fakes better, it shouldn’t matter.  What matter is does he throw the ball to an open receiver.   

[hordman]

This is disappointing to hear:

https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/armando-salguero/article240357851.html

Miami Dolphins’ current view of Tua Tagovailoa and Justin Herbert might surprise you

"One source said the Dolphins are not just concerned about Tagovailoa’s return to full health from the fractured and dislocated hip he suffered last November, but also about his durability in the long-term beyond the current injury. "

so, the Dolphins would rather go with someone who is low risk, middle ceiling (aka Ryan Tannehill 2.0) or take a chance on a QB that was top of the line, but has had some injuries recently.

I will say that if the Dolphins vet Tua and his injuries (most importantly the hip) are minimal than you take him.  I will be the first to say that when I aw the game live and what happened, I though that injury was brutal was hesitant on taking him.  The hip was displaced immediately and of course surgery a day or two later. This is NOT the Bo Jackson injury of 30 years ago

If doctor's give him the clearance and he shows that he can do the job, he take him. I don't some Dr. Danny kannell Sr. moment again where we pass Brees for Culpepper.

Joe Burrows one season aside, Tua was the best damn QB to come out of college the last 2 years and it's not even close.

[Tenshot13]

This is disappointing to hear:

https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/armando-salguero/article240357851.html

Miami Dolphins’ current view of Tua Tagovailoa and Justin Herbert might surprise you

"One source said the Dolphins are not just concerned about Tagovailoa’s return to full health from the fractured and dislocated hip he suffered last November, but also about his durability in the long-term beyond the current injury. "

so, the Dolphins would rather go with someone who is low risk, middle ceiling (aka Ryan Tannehill 2.0) or take a chance on a QB that was top of the line, but has had some injuries recently.

I will say that if the Dolphins vet Tua and his injuries (most importantly the hip) are minimal than you take him.  I will be the first to say that when I aw the game live and what happened, I though that injury was brutal was hesitant on taking him.  The hip was displaced immediately and of course surgery a day or two later. This is NOT the Bo Jackson injury of 30 years ago

If doctor's give him the clearance and he shows that he can do the job, he take him. I don't some Dr. Danny kannell Sr. moment again where we pass Brees for Culpepper.

Joe Burrows one season aside, Tua was the best damn QB to come out of college the last 2 years and it's not even close.

He's the best since Andrew Luck

[EDGECRUSHER]

This is disappointing to hear:

https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/armando-salguero/article240357851.html

Miami Dolphins’ current view of Tua Tagovailoa and Justin Herbert might surprise you

"One source said the Dolphins are not just concerned about Tagovailoa’s return to full health from the fractured and dislocated hip he suffered last November, but also about his durability in the long-term beyond the current injury. "

so, the Dolphins would rather go with someone who is low risk, middle ceiling (aka Ryan Tannehill 2.0) or take a chance on a QB that was top of the line, but has had some injuries recently.

I will say that if the Dolphins vet Tua and his injuries (most importantly the hip) are minimal than you take him.  I will be the first to say that when I aw the game live and what happened, I though that injury was brutal was hesitant on taking him.  The hip was displaced immediately and of course surgery a day or two later. This is NOT the Bo Jackson injury of 30 years ago

If doctor's give him the clearance and he shows that he can do the job, he take him. I don't some Dr. Danny kannell Sr. moment again where we pass Brees for Culpepper.

Joe Burrows one season aside, Tua was the best damn QB to come out of college the last 2 years and it's not even close.

There is no question that Tua is far more talented than Herbert with a much higher ceiling. However, if this isn't a smokescreen then Miami is right to do their due diligence and see if his body can handle not just NFL sized players tackling him but the long NFL schedule. No Cal Poly Tech A&M at the pro level.

In the end, if Tua is available at 5 I don't see us passing on him. To pass on Tua and have him go to 9 Pro Bowls with the Chargers may be the final push off the ledge for us Dolphin fans. If he is taken before we pick then we would have had 2 months of talking ourselves into him and it won't seem so bad.

[Sunstroke]

Tis the season for misinformation, folks... If I tell you I love cheeseburgers, it actually means that I love chili dogs more, and hope the chili dog slides to me.

Believe nothing at surface value on any article regarding how a team/GM/coach feels about a prospect.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Tis the season for misinformation, folks... If I tell you I love cheeseburgers, it actually means that I love chili dogs more, and hope the chili dog slides to me.

Believe nothing at surface value on any article regarding how a team/GM/coach feels about a prospect.

+1.  I love how people go crazy over what is either misinformation or speculation by people outside the organization.

[EDGECRUSHER]

Tis the season for misinformation, folks... If I tell you I love cheeseburgers, it actually means that I love chili dogs more, and hope the chili dog slides to me.

Believe nothing at surface value on any article regarding how a team/GM/coach feels about a prospect.

"Reporters" are just taking common sense and adding some fake names to it. Of course Miami is concerned about Tua's injury history and of course Herbert has a lot of great intangibles. Within 2 weeks you will see reports that they aren't convinced either QB will last long in the NFL and how Chase Young is their top target.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

"Reporters" are just taking common sense and adding some fake names to it. Of course Miami is concerned about Tua's injury history and of course Herbert has a lot of great intangibles. Within 2 weeks you will see reports that they aren't convinced either QB will last long in the NFL and how Chase Young is their top target.

My sources tell me the Dolphins are eyeing Michael Turk of Arizona State with the 18th pick but they are worried that the Falcons are going to take him at 16 so they are going to try to trade with Denver for the 15 spot.

[CF DolFan]

Armando's article is click bait. Seriously ... they joke about it on the radio. He Dave Hyde and the others have nothing to go on as Chris Grier and Flores are not "leaking" any information but they have to write something. It's funny because I think you get to hear how they really feel when they fill in on a radio program. Otherwise they are just selling papers.

For what it's worth Joe Rose and the others went so far as to say that they aren't even trying to play the misleading game. Think New England and how almost nothing from internal is ever disclosed.

[BuccaneerBrad]

For what it's worth Joe Rose and the others went so far as to say that they aren't even trying to play the misleading game. Think New England and how almost nothing from internal is ever disclosed.

And the Dolphins head coach came from where??

[Sunstroke]

My sources tell me the Dolphins are eyeing Michael Turk of Arizona State with the 18th pick but they are worried that the Falcons are going to take him at 16 so they are going to try to trade with Denver for the 15 spot.

If Miami is truly targeting Michael Turk at #18, it must mean that they were so impressed with Matt Haack's passing ability (everytime he throws...Touchdown!) that they are going to use him at QB this season and skip out on all the Tagovailoa/Herbert nonsense.

Sure, I can see it... 

[Dolphster]

Tis the season for misinformation, folks... If I tell you I love cheeseburgers, it actually means that I love chili dogs more, and hope the chili dog slides to me.

Believe nothing at surface value on any article regarding how a team/GM/coach feels about a prospect.

Exactly.  Teams run the misdirection play every single off season and people fall for it every single season.  Put yourselves in a team's management shoes.  Why in the world would you disclose your draft plan to every other team and the world before the draft?  There is absolutely nothing for a team to gain by doing that.  Conversely, putting up smoke screens, etc. definitely helps a team in the runup to the draft.  

[EDGECRUSHER]

Exactly.  Teams run the misdirection play every single off season and people fall for it every single season.  Put yourselves in a team's management shoes.  Why in the world would you disclose your draft plan to every other team and the world before the draft?  There is absolutely nothing for a team to gain by doing that.  Conversely, putting up smoke screens, etc. definitely helps a team in the runup to the draft.  

It's the slowest time of the year for football so beat writers are desperate top write about anything and teams play along with fake leaks about their draft and free agency plans. Fake news is better than no news.