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Author Topic: Postseason Now 14 Teams  (Read 4797 times)
Tenshot13
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« Reply #15 on: April 01, 2020, 03:00:59 pm »

Complaints about adding an additional, meaningful game on a football fan site. What is next, complaints about having too much sex?
...I'm too tired...
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EDGECRUSHER
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« Reply #16 on: April 01, 2020, 03:31:20 pm »

The NBA and NHL have 7-game series to determine who moves on in the playoffs.  The NFL has 1.

People talk about the NBA regular season being "meaningless," but in the NBA Playoffs, the higher seeds perform a LOT better than in other sports.  (In contrast, the NHL is a great example of a sport with a meaningless regular season, as their playoffs are basically a coin flip in every round.) Adding additional weak teams to a playoff system which is already very favorable to weak teams has a much bigger effect on delegitimizing the regular season than in a sport where upsets are much less common.

That's because the NHL playoffs are determined by cliches like grit and toughness where as the NBA is just skill. Not knocking them in any way, just stating how it is. You can will yourself to the Stanley Cup in the NHL.
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Pappy13
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« Reply #17 on: April 01, 2020, 03:41:48 pm »

That's because the NHL playoffs are determined by cliches like grit and toughness where as the NBA is just skill. Not knocking them in any way, just stating how it is. You can will yourself to the Stanley Cup in the NHL.
I think it has a lot more to do with the size of the teams. Hockey teams have 15 or 20 players that get plenty of ice time. The NFL has maybe 30 to 40? The NBA has maybe 6 or 7? Games are not typically decided by the same 3 or 4 players night in and night out in the NHL or the NFL like they are in the NBA so upsets are much more likely.
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Sunstroke
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« Reply #18 on: April 01, 2020, 03:43:46 pm »

Complaints about adding an additional, meaningful game on a football fan site. What is next, complaints about having too much sex? 

EXACTLY!!

I am ok with anything that gives me more football...especially playoff football.

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Pappy13
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« Reply #19 on: April 01, 2020, 03:52:06 pm »

By this logic, there's nothing wrong with expanding the playoffs to include losing teams, because they'll quickly be eliminated if they don't "deserve" to be there.
No one is advocating expanding the playoffs to include "losing" teams, it's actually the reverse. They are expanding the playoffs to include teams with winning records that have previously missed the playoffs, the problem is that there's no way to ensure that happens without also allowing for the possibility that a team with a losing record will be included from time to time. As I have maintained from the beginning it's a trade off. Simply looking at the negative side effects while completely ignoring the positive benefits is short-sighted.
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Spider-Dan
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« Reply #20 on: April 01, 2020, 05:50:34 pm »

I think it has a lot more to do with the size of the teams. Hockey teams have 15 or 20 players that get plenty of ice time. The NFL has maybe 30 to 40? The NBA has maybe 6 or 7? Games are not typically decided by the same 3 or 4 players night in and night out in the NHL or the NFL like they are in the NBA so upsets are much more likely.
I'm no hockey fan, but my understanding is that in playoff hockey, the team with the better goalie almost always wins, and the rest of the players on the ice barely matter in comparison.

The only comparable example is pitchers in baseball, but even the greatest pitcher can't play every game.
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Pappy13
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« Reply #21 on: April 01, 2020, 05:54:02 pm »

I'm no hockey fan, but my understanding is that in playoff hockey, the team with the better goalie almost always wins, and the rest of the players on the ice barely matter in comparison.

The only comparable example is pitchers in baseball, but even the greatest pitcher can't play every game.
I'd say that goalies have about as much effect on the game that a pitcher in Baseball and a QB in football have. More then most, but not as much as the rest of the team combined. Even the best goalies are beat unless they have solid defense in front of them. As in Football, the media and fans tend to exaggerate the relative importance to the W and L columns. I would also argue that the best players in Basketball have a bigger effect on the 'W' and 'L' columns just because of the relatively small size of the teams. Think of it this way, if you play Singles Tennis then 100% of the 'W' or 'L' is based on the one player. In doubles Tennis it's split between the 2 players, but still relatively even so approximately 50% for each. As you get larger and larger teams the relative effect any 1 player has gets smaller and smaller. Certainly the better players and the certain positions have more effect but it's still relatively small in size compared to the entire rest of the team. As for the goalie, if you have a shit team with the best goalie ever, the best you can hope for is a tie.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2020, 06:15:03 pm by Pappy13 » Logged

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Spider-Dan
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« Reply #22 on: April 01, 2020, 05:56:15 pm »

No one is advocating expanding the playoffs to include "losing" teams, it's actually the reverse. They are expanding the playoffs to include teams with winning records that have previously missed the playoffs, the problem is that there's no way to ensure that happens without also allowing for the possibility that a team with a losing record will be included from time to time.
The bottom line is that this playoff expansion, by definition, will include worse teams that would be excluded under the old system.

Now, if you're the kind of fan that loves random chaos in the postseason, this is great! (And given the popularity of March Madness, American sports fans definitely like random chaos!) I, personally, do not.  I like to see the teams with better records win in the postseason, not a 9-7 team catch fire and invalidate the entire regular season.
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Pappy13
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« Reply #23 on: April 01, 2020, 05:57:17 pm »

The bottom line is that this playoff expansion, by definition, will include worse teams that would be excluded under the old system.

Now, if you're the kind of fan that loves random chaos in the postseason, this is great! (And given the popularity of March Madness, American sports fans definitely like random chaos!) I, personally, do not.  I like to see the teams with better records win in the postseason, not a 9-7 team catch fire and invalidate the entire regular season.
There's a reason it's called post season. The regular season is over.
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Phishfan
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« Reply #24 on: April 01, 2020, 09:29:41 pm »

I'm no hockey fan, but my understanding is that in playoff hockey, the team with the better goalie almost always wins, and the rest of the players on the ice barely matter in comparison.

The only comparable example is pitchers in baseball, but even the greatest pitcher can't play every game.

Chicken and egg. Of course the winning side is going to appear to have the better goaltending,. Did they win because of his stats or are his stats because they won?
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Spider-Dan
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« Reply #25 on: April 01, 2020, 10:02:48 pm »

Chicken and egg. Of course the winning side is going to appear to have the better goaltending,.
That's not true at all.

In all of these sports, the team that scores more points wins the game.  So does that mean that we credit the amazing defense of every team that wins, because they held the opponent to fewer points than they scored?  Of course not.  There are teams that win because of strong defensive play, and other teams that win with OK defense and strong offense.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2020, 10:08:10 pm by Spider-Dan » Logged

MyGodWearsAHoodie
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« Reply #26 on: April 02, 2020, 09:18:02 am »


Now, if you're the kind of fan that loves random chaos in the postseason, this is great! (And given the popularity of March Madness, American sports fans definitely like random chaos!) I, personally, do not.  I like to see the teams with better records win in the postseason, not a 9-7 team catch fire and invalidate the entire regular season.

Maybe I am miss remembering, but I don’t recall you express such angst at the randomness of the NFL post season in February of 2008.  Had we had a system where only division winners advance the Giants would have not made the post season.
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Spider-Dan
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« Reply #27 on: April 02, 2020, 12:55:04 pm »

Yes, and in a world where better record always wins, NE doesn't get their first title in 2001, Bledsoe doesn't get traded to BUF, and Brady gets shipped out at the end of the 2002 season (after losing his job as a starter).
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MyGodWearsAHoodie
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« Reply #28 on: April 02, 2020, 01:22:59 pm »

Yes, and in a world where better record always wins, NE doesn't get their first title in 2001, Bledsoe doesn't get traded to BUF, and Brady gets shipped out at the end of the 2002 season (after losing his job as a starter).

True, and we certainly wouldn’t have won the 1985 AFCCG.  But I am not opposed to wild playoffs, you are.

For me the only question is “will this result in more or less meaningful week 16 and 17 regular season games?”. If more than it is good, if less than it is bad.
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Spider-Dan
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« Reply #29 on: April 02, 2020, 02:08:26 pm »

Expanding the playoffs to 8 teams per conference would result in an even greater number of meaningful late season games.  But for some reason, that's considered crazy.
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