Is this the 2nd Amendment time?

[Spider-Dan]

Now that the President has mobilized our military against American citizens, is this the fabled 2nd Amendment time that gun proponents have been warning about for decades?  You know, the time when our armed citizenry rises up against a tyrannical government that sets the military on its own people.  This has to be it, right?

...or are the people with guns wildly cheering on the government jackboots, making the 2nd Amendment redundant and pointless?

Of course, there's another possibility.  Maybe the problem is that the people looting and vandalizing don't have enough firearms.

The 2nd Amendment is absolutely useless as a tool to oppose the government.  The heavily armed anti-quarantine protesters would have accomplished exactly as much without their guns, because they have political power and the media automatically treats their grievances seriously, no matter how small their number or how overwhelmingly unpopular their demands are.  The people in the streets today would not be helped ONE BIT by arming themselves, and in fact would make the autocratic militaristic response we are already seeing far more brutal and bloody.

[CF DolFan]

Now that the President has mobilized our military against American citizens, is this the fabled 2nd Amendment time that gun proponents have been warning about for decades?  You know, the time when our armed citizenry rises up against a tyrannical government that sets the military on its own people.  This has to be it, right?

...or are the people with guns wildly cheering on the government jackboots, making the 2nd Amendment redundant and pointless?

Of course, there's another possibility.  Maybe the problem is that the people looting and vandalizing don't have enough firearms.

The 2nd Amendment is absolutely useless as a tool to oppose the government.  The heavily armed anti-quarantine protesters would have accomplished exactly as much without their guns, because they have political power and the media automatically treats their grievances seriously, no matter how small their number or how overwhelmingly unpopular their demands are.  The people in the streets today would not be helped ONE BIT by arming themselves, and in fact would make the autocratic militaristic response we are already seeing far more brutal and bloody.

In case you haven't noticed the looters are the criminals here and not the government. Don't know about you but I slept fine last night with my loaded guns. My Facebook was full of people prepared to defend their home or business and I've seen many others do the same in videos of the mayhem. 2nd Amendment is working just fine. As well the people with the most guns support our government right now.

[MaineDolFan]

Here is where the 2nd is working just fine, especially in this situation: Business owners securing their property.  In Philly last night looters tried breaking into a heavily secured gun store.  The last line of defense was the store owner, who happened to also be well trained and have the high ground.  It did not turn out well for the looters, and that business owner saved lives protecting his business. 

There was a well orchestrated and planned riot in Providence, RI last night - starting at midnight; this was not a protest or a demonstration.  There was calls to spill into neighborhoods, I have family not far from the epicenter.  I felt better knowing my family in that area subscribes to the 2nd amendment, is well trained and - if needed - could defend themselves.

The 2nd amendment, as written (the whole "well armed militia" thing) was long before the founding fathers had any idea we would come up with a drone who could pin point a target from miles away and destroy it without getting its hands dirty.  IF the military is deployed against the general population (lets really hope it does not come to that - it is a heart breaking notion) there isn't anything the public could do.  This isn't "Red Dawn," we don't live in movie.

I support the protests, not anarchy.  I support reform.  It is horrible property is being destroyed but killing black people has to stop.

[Spider-Dan]

I agree that armed citizens are successfully defending their property.  Whether the tradeoff of "Being able to protect your business during riots once every thirty years or so" is worth "seeing piles of childrens' bodies after yet another school shooting every year" is a legitimate debate. (And I do mean that, even though I come down firmly on one side of it.)

But that's not the argument that 2Aers make.  They say that handguns are supposed to protect us from government jackboots.  So why are we seeing all these videos of police in riot gear cracking down on the protesters who are acting peacefully?  Why are we seeing journalists being brutalized?  Where are all the assault weapons semi-automatic rifles that prevent tyranny?

Oh, the people who have them are cheering on the government, just as they have every other time our government has trampled the rights of the powerless.

[MaineDolFan]

You're kind of pivoting, while managing to stay within the zip code of the same subject SD; so it's hard to discuss.  There is a lot to unroll here.  Do you wish to discuss what you feel is the gun fetish in America which is leading to the deaths of innocent people, or the militarization of police and the mishandling of people who are expressing their 1st amendment rights? 

Both are valid, however, a little off from where I was landing on; the original intent of the 2nd amendment no longer applies.  No one is going to create a militia to arm themselves successfully against the government (although I know some think they can).  However we can shift from this thinking and see where people are successfully defending themselves, their families, property and business when a protest turns violent. 

If your stance is to abolish gun ownership we go our separate ways on this subject.  If your stance is stricter gun control, I'm all ears.  You also veered off into the subject of government overreach; this is one for the ages.  Do you think this started with riot police pushing a bunch of people around on the street?  I know the 'Merica! crowd loves to preach about Mom, freedom and apple pie.  There are a green screens in place in this country.

[Spider-Dan]

Well, my original post was specifically referring to the claims that the 2A is needed to protect us from government tyranny.  That claim, as you seem to agree, is ridiculous. (And I don't agree that was even the "original intent"; the Constitution does not have provisions for its own armed overthrow.  I'd say the original intent of the 2A was to allow states the capacity to put down slave rebellions.)

Now, you raised a valid point about the 2A serving to give people means to defend themselves during a riot.  You could also argue that it helps people defend themselves during an attempted home invasion, robbery, etc.  And that may all be true... but that does not come at zero cost.  The gun proliferation that allows people to defend themselves in a crisis also provides for thousands to be killed in violent gun crime every year.

[Fau Teixeira]

i wonder how different these protests would be if everyone was open carrying

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

I'd say the original intent of the 2A was to allow states the capacity to put down slave rebellions.)

It is well documented in the papers at the time the purpose of 2A was to prevent the federal military from usurping the role of state militaries.  Something that happened after the civil war anyhow.

[Dolphster]

i wonder how different these protests would be if everyone was open carrying

Ideally, it would work like the concept of Mutual Assured Destruction during the Cold War.  The fact that both the USA and USSR knew that if either launched a nuke, the other side would turn the opposing country into a sheet of glass and that served as a deterrent.   However, people are such dumbasses (especially young dumbasses) that they have no concept of consequences of their actions so if everyone was open carrying, one dumbass would crank off a round and within seconds, a complete bloodbath would ensue.  Obviously that is just my opinion, but it is based on 56 years of observing astounding levels of stupidity in human beings. 

[Sunstroke]

...so if everyone was open carrying, one dumbass would crank off a round and within seconds, a complete bloodbath would ensue.  Obviously that is just my opinion, but it is based on 56 years of observing astounding levels of stupidity in human beings. 

I'd say your opinion...and your observational skills...are fairly well calibrated.