National Anthem (spinoff from a Dolphins Thread)

[Fau Teixeira]

Also, the assumption that we're the richest country in the world means little when you don't provide any metrics to back that up.

Sure, we're richer than Suriname, or Russia or 90% of other countries. And we have the most billionaires. But honestly what do care about Bezos or the Waltons wealth. How does that help anyone other than themselves?

If we're talking about GDP, it's just a matter of time before China overtakes us. And if you consider the EU as an economic block rather than each country individually (because of the common market) then that's a larger economy than the US as well.

If you're talking about per capita income, we aren't even close to #1. If you're talking about quality of life measures related to wealth, we're somewhere in the low teens.

My only problem when people say that the US is the "greatest" country in the world is that they don't ever quantify the metrics.

It once was, that's for sure. But the destruction of the middle class that Reagan started has decimated this country for the past 40 years.

[Pappy13]

Hypothetically speaking, what would have to be different in order for you to change this belief?

The constitution. I don't care about power or money, I care about ideals. Over 200 years ago the founding fathers of this country got it right. It hasn't always been how they conceived of it and this is a pretty dark time for the US, but I've lived through the 60's, 70's and 80's and there have always been dark times. It's never been easy, but this country always bounces back because it's built on a solid foundation. And when I say I live in the greatest country, I'm not talking about "at this moment in time", I'm talking about the last 200 years. No question that the US is the greatest country over the last 200 years in my mind. I've lived through nearly 60 of those and when I look back at all that we have accomplished and all that we have been through I can say that with confidence. Too many only focus on the "What have you done for me lately" aspect of that statement, I'm focused more on the big picture. It's all about your perspective. Trump says he wants to make America great again, but I don't think he has the same things in mind when he says that as I do.

[Pappy13]

I believe most legislatures (and similar bodies like city councils) recite the pledge before starting official proceedings.

They typically also have the US flag present at these meetings when they recite the pledge. It's a way of reminding everyone why they are there.

[Dave Gray]

Anyone else find grown men discussing the pledge a little weird? I haven't been in a position where it was spoken around me in 40 years probably. I always thought that it was just kids in elementary schools.

I run across it at school functions for my kids.  It's the only time that I personally am put in that position.  I think it's kinda weird and don't feel right about it, so I don't do it, but that's just me.  I don't really go for public affirmations like that.

[Spider-Dan]

And when I say I live in the greatest country, I'm not talking about "at this moment in time", I'm talking about the last 200 years. No question that the US is the greatest country over the last 200 years in my mind. I've lived through nearly 60 of those and when I look back at all that we have accomplished and all that we have been through I can say that with confidence. Too many only focus on the "What have you done for me lately" aspect of that statement, I'm focused more on the big picture.

It wasn't that long ago that you could have said "at this moment in time" with pride.

I think when most people hear talk of "the greatest country in the world," they think of right now, not over the last 200 or 500 or 1000 years.  If someone from the UK said that Britain is the greatest country of the last 500 years, would you disagree?  "200 years" is an arbitrary number; "right now" isn't.

[Pappy13]

It wasn't that long ago that you could have said "at this moment in time" with pride.

I think when most people hear talk of "the greatest country in the world," they think of right now, not over the last 200 or 500 or 1000 years.  If someone from the UK said that Britain is the greatest country of the last 500 years, would you disagree?  "200 years" is an arbitrary number; "right now" isn't.

The US has only been around 200 or so years. The LAST 200 years seems pretty relevant to me. A lot more then the 300 years before that. I think you're being argumentative.

[Spider-Dan]

I think it's pretty convenient that the timeframe that "counts" is almost exactly the same as the age of the country you think is best.  Older countries are too old to be relevant, and we can't "focus on what you have done for me lately" because... that's not old enough, or something.  I mean, why is 1830 more relevant to today than 1730 or 1630?  As I said, seems pretty arbitrary.

[Pappy13]

I think it's pretty convenient that the timeframe that "counts" is almost exactly the same as the age of the country you think is best.  Older countries are too old to be relevant, and we can't "focus on what you have done for me lately" because... that's not old enough, or something.  I mean, why is 1830 more relevant to today than 1730 or 1630?  As I said, seems pretty arbitrary.

You're missing the point. The only time that is relevant to the US is during it's existence. It's not convenient, it's completely relevant. It's not like the US has been around for 1000 Years and I'm cherry picking the last 200. I'm saying that during the time the US has existed, it's been the greatest country in the world for most of that time. What happened prior to it's existence is irrelevant when comparing to the US. In my opinion it still is the greatest country in the world, because of the reasons that I've already mentioned. I don't get what you don't get about that and I'm not going to argue with you about it because it's my opinion, you don't have to agree.

[Sunstroke]

My only problem when people say that the US is the "greatest" country in the world is that they don't ever quantify the metrics.

Perhaps one of the truly great speeches from a TV show...season 1, episode 1 of The Newsroom, after Will McAvoy snaps at the question "What makes America the greatest country in the world?"

"It sure used to be… We stood up for what was right. We fought for moral reasons. We passed laws, struck down laws, for moral reason. We waged wars on poverty, not on poor people. We sacrificed, we cared about our neighbors, we put our money where our mouths were and we never beat our chest. We built great, big things, made ungodly technological advances, explored the universe, cured diseases and we cultivated the world’s greatest artists AND the world’s greatest economy. We reached for the stars, acted like men. We aspired to intelligence, we didn’t belittle it. It didn’t make us feel inferior. We didn’t identify ourselves by who we voted for in the last election and ...we didn’t scare so easy. We were able to be all these things and do all these things because we were informed… by great men, men who were revered. First step in solving any problem is recognizing there is one. America is not the greatest country in the world anymore.”

[Pappy13]

Let me try to bring this discussion back around to where it started, sorry if I pulled it off the rails, it was not intended.

Racism is not a new thing. It's a VERY old thing. It pretty much has been a part of mankind since the beginning and definitely been a part of the US since it's inception. We can argue what the Civil war was about, but a large part of it was about racism which is at the core of slavery. What was world war II about? Again a large part of it was about racism. The Klu Klux Klan? Racism. In the 60's it was segregation. Now it's social injustice. Racism has ALWAYS been a problem for the US and just about every country in my mind. The only thing that has changed is the battlefield. This particular battlefield is new, but the underlying problem has ALWAYS been there. We stamp out racism in one place and it just shifts to a new battlefield. It will be the same with the current problem within the police force. I'm not saying it's not important, it is I'm just saying that its not new. For many of you it seems like this is something new for you, for me it's not. It's a continuation of the problem that's been there from the beginning. I think we are making progress, but there's ALWAYS room for improvement. This current issue doesn't diminish my view of the US as a whole, in fact just the opposite. It reinforces the notion that all men are created equal and deserve equal rights and shows that once again the US is working on correctlng a problem with racism at it's core. That's what we do as a country. That's what we have always done.

[Phishfan]

Stroke beat me to it. The Newsroom was great and that may have been its best scene.

[Fau Teixeira]

Pappy sorry .. but you're just wrong.

I'm saying that during the time the US has existed, it's been the greatest country in the world for most of that time.

The US rise to superpower was a direct result of WW2 mobilization and the fact that no shots were fired on the mainland. So lets be generous and call it 1942 to today, that's 78 years. Before that the US wasn't the most powerful or most influential or most economically prosperous country in the world. That was the English empire. Only after WW2, where GB had to recover from infrastructure losses, debt payments and the loss of their overseas possessions did the US climb to the #1 spot by any metric.

You can say it's your favorite country in the world, and I won't dispute it. You can say that since WW2, the us has been the greatest country and I'll even (mostly) buy that.  But majority of its existence? not a chance.

[CF DolFan]

The USA is the greatest country in the world because everyone wants to come here for the freedoms, protections, and opportunities to better their self and their family. It's so good in fact that haters refuse to leave it.

[Sunstroke]

The USA is the greatest country in the world because everyone wants to come here for the freedoms, protections, and opportunities to better their self and their family. It's so good in fact that haters refuse to leave it.

Are you saying that because you've actually spoken to everyone? Or because you've determined that nobody is emigrating to any country other than the USA?

[Dolphster]

The USA is the greatest country in the world because everyone wants to come here for the freedoms, protections, and opportunities to better their self and their family. It's so good in fact that haters refuse to leave it.

I love this country too, but making a huge generalization like that is not going to go well for you in this thread.