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Author Topic: COVID update - November  (Read 451 times)
MyGodWearsAHoodie
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« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2020, 09:25:08 am »

My freedom to go out and hang with my friends won't kill you if you are taking necessary precautions. It all about "personal" responsibility.



That is blatantly false.  Wearing a mask does little to protect the wearer, it does plenty to protect others.  

Also if not wearing a mask is about freedom, shouldnít that hold true for not wearing pants?  Go out into public without pants and you will be arrested.  The same principals who claim enforcement of a mask policy would be unmanageable have no qualms about suspending a girl for wearing a skirt that is a half inch too short.

Letís take the personal responsible items one by one.

1. Wear a mask.  This is does minimal to protect the wearer, it does plenty to help others.

2. Get tested if you have symptoms or are exposed to others.  This does nothing to prevent you from getting the virus, but can be instrumental in protecting others.   

3. Self-isolate if you have symptoms or are exposed to others.  This does absolutely nothing to protect yourself, but protects others.

4. Take your temperature and self-isolate if you have a fever.  Does nothing to prevent you from getting the virus, but protects others.

5.  Wash your hands.  Helps both equally.  Reduces the likelihood you will get the virus if healthy and reduces the likelihood of spreading it if infected. 

6.Stay 6 feet from others when possible.  Equal for both. 

Responsible behavior is more about protecting others than yourself so the taking necessary precautions is wonít save you.  You are dependent on others taking the necessary precautions too. 

Not wearing a mask is NOT the equivalent  of riding a motorcycle/bicycle without a helmet or riding in a car without a seatbelt.  In those situations majority of harm for lack of responsible behavior is borne by the person acting irresponsible.

Nor is it even like driving drunk or driving at night without headlights.  In those situation the irresponsible person is endangering themself  roughly equally with society at large. 

Not isolating with symptoms or refusing to wear a mask is the equivalent of driving on the sidewalk or throwing rocks at cars on the freeway from an overpass.  There is virtually nothing that the others can do to protect themselves from someone elseís irresponsible behavior but self-centered individualís reckless behavior causes him little or no personal risk (in comparison to the risk and harm caused to others)
« Last Edit: November 20, 2020, 02:58:40 pm by MyGodWearsAHoodie » Logged

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CF DolFan
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« Reply #16 on: November 22, 2020, 09:33:50 am »

I haven't said anything about wearing a mask but nice speech. I said hang out with friends. It would seem like you got that point seeing as how you quoted it.

While some people are against masks in any form ... the vast majority of us wear them when required. It's kind of like seat belts if you're old enough to remember. People bitched about wearing them but now you're the odd person out if you don't. The problem is shutting down business and telling people you cannot visit family, friends, church etc or that you must wear a mask except for when putting food into your mouth. Chewing requires you to wear a mask. These are the kind of things that cross the line of tyranny and has nothing to do with safety.

In somewhat good news I saw a report yesterday that they isolated the auto immune "thingy" (I can't remember the tech term) in the body that makes people vulnerable to covid. They said approx 1 in 1200 people have it.  It's still in the works but they will be able to test to see who is and isn't the most vulnerable. That in itself would be great news.
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MaineDolFan
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« Reply #17 on: November 23, 2020, 09:47:39 am »

My freedom to go out and hang with my friends won't kill you if you are taking necessary precautions. It all about "personal" responsibility.

I HATE this type of statement.  With a goddamn passion.  "If you're wearing a mask, why do I need to?" "If you're being safe, why do I need to?"

I'm only part time, so I'm not going to put myself in the same category as my peers.  Folks at hospitals are not front line workers, they are your last line of defense.  Do your part to not only make sure you don't meet any, but your friends, family and community members don't as well.
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masterfins
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« Reply #18 on: November 24, 2020, 03:47:26 pm »

I haven't said anything about wearing a mask but nice speech. I said hang out with friends. It would seem like you got that point seeing as how you quoted it.

While some people are against masks in any form ... the vast majority of us wear them when required. It's kind of like seat belts if you're old enough to remember. People bitched about wearing them but now you're the odd person out if you don't. The problem is shutting down business and telling people you cannot visit family, friends, church etc or that you must wear a mask except for when putting food into your mouth. Chewing requires you to wear a mask. These are the kind of things that cross the line of tyranny and has nothing to do with safety.
 

I agree with you, everyone's situation is different and THEY need to take the necessary precautions for their situation.  I don't have a problem wearing a mask in stores or trying to socially distance myself in public.  And I think people should be tested and quarantine themselves if they are symptomatic.  However, this one size fits all approach to close down large sections of the economy and deeply infringe upon everyones rights is wrong IMO.  Sometimes the "cure" is worse than the disease because it creates all sorts of other life problems which have long term negative effects.
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Fau Teixeira
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« Reply #19 on: November 24, 2020, 04:46:31 pm »

However, this one size fits all approach to close down large sections of the economy and deeply infringe upon everyones rights is wrong IMO.  Sometimes the "cure" is worse than the disease because it creates all sorts of other life problems which have long term negative effects.

Sweeden tried this approach, when norway, denmark and finland locked down, sweeden stayed open cause the "cure shouldn't be worse than the disease" .. and what happened?
sweeden had just as much economic disruption than its neighbors and had a bunch more infections and deaths than its neighbors.

You cannot have an economy without controlling covid.
It .. does .. not .. work.

People won't engage, and businesses will fail, and people will get sick, and then even more won't engage in the economy. The way to get through this was for the government to guarantee everybody's income for as long as the pandemic lasts. Something governments around the world did. What we're going to end up with is a rent crisis and a mortgage crisis. Both of which will do massive harm to our economy. Harm that could have been prevented with UBI.
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masterfins
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« Reply #20 on: November 24, 2020, 10:46:08 pm »

Sweeden tried this approach, when norway, denmark and finland locked down, sweeden stayed open cause the "cure shouldn't be worse than the disease" .. and what happened?
sweeden had just as much economic disruption than its neighbors and had a bunch more infections and deaths than its neighbors.

You cannot have an economy without controlling covid.
It .. does .. not .. work.

People won't engage, and businesses will fail, and people will get sick, and then even more won't engage in the economy. The way to get through this was for the government to guarantee everybody's income for as long as the pandemic lasts. Something governments around the world did. What we're going to end up with is a rent crisis and a mortgage crisis. Both of which will do massive harm to our economy. Harm that could have been prevented with UBI.

Comparing a country like Sweden, about the size of a single U.S. State, to the entire United States, is just not a fair comparison.  You seem to like to do this with issues like health insurance, etc.  And I never said there should be a free for all with nothing done to limit the spread of Covid.  Furthermore, I didn't state it but the problems I am thinking about are domestic violence, severe depression, homelessness, and many other societal issues that can last years, if not decades, which create other health issues that lead to lower life expectancies. 

But lets take Sweden as an example of the point I was trying to make.  Sweden's population is approx. 10.3 million people, of which 2.4 million of those people live in the Metropolitan area of Stockholm; which can be similar to many U.S. states that have one or two metropolitan size cities within their borders.  My point is that the entire Commonwealth of Pennsylvania shouldn't be quarantined because there is an outbreak in Philadelphia or Pittsburgh, when the vast majority of the Commonwealth has the virus in check.
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Spider-Dan
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« Reply #21 on: November 25, 2020, 01:44:28 am »

Comparing a country like Sweden, about the size of a single U.S. State, to the entire United States, is just not a fair comparison.
It's difficult to draw an accurate comparison with a country the size of the US, for two reasons:

1) the countries nearest-in-size to the US have all been much more aggressive than us in their measures to try to contain the virus
2) the US has, by far, the worst COVID numbers of any comparably-sized country

Essentially, the only real comparison that the US can be involved in is for other large nations to point at and say, "See?  The US tried downplaying the virus to protect the economy, and they have more COVID deaths than any other nation on the planet... AND their economy is still ruined anyway.  It doesn't work."

In short, the reason why using Sweden as a cautionary tale is suboptimal is because we are the REAL cautionary tale. WE are the country that leaders in India, Japan, Pakistan, or Indonesia point at and say, "We have to institute harsh restrictions or COVID will get as bad as it is in the US.  Do you want to wind up like them, with thousands of deaths every day for weeks on end?"

We're a global horror story; an example for parents across the planet to point to as a warning to their children.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2020, 03:03:24 am by Spider-Dan » Logged

Fau Teixeira
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« Reply #22 on: November 25, 2020, 08:52:19 am »

Comparing a country like Sweden, about the size of a single U.S. State, to the entire United States, is just not a fair comparison.  You seem to like to do this with issues like health insurance, etc.  And I never said there should be a free for all with nothing done to limit the spread of Covid.  Furthermore, I didn't state it but the problems I am thinking about are domestic violence, severe depression, homelessness, and many other societal issues that can last years, if not decades, which create other health issues that lead to lower life expectancies. 

i very specifically didn't compare sweeden to the US .. i compared it to denmark, finland and norway, countries that in all fairness are almost identical to sweeden in economy, climate, population density, social structure, government type and wealth distribution.
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