This is why we need less cops and more social workers

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/01/us/rochester-police-pepper-spray-child/index.html

Without question what the police did was wrong.  They should be fired, they should be criminally prosecuted.

But that won’t solve the problem.  The cops should not have been the ones in charge of transporting the girl.  It should have been an unarmed caseworker. Maybe cops needed to be present in case an adult became violent, but the situation should have been under the control of a mental health professional not a police officer.  This means less cops and more caseworkers.  Mental health professionals on standby 24/7, ones that are authorized to have flashing lights and a sirens to respond quickly to emergencies.  

Call this “defund the police” if you want but it is about using the right tool for the job.  Police are not the right tool for suicide prevention.  They are in fact worse than nothing.

[Pappy13]

Without question what the police did was wrong.

Yep.

 They should be fired, they should be criminally prosecuted.

Nope, unless there are other circumstances like this is 2nd offense or something like that. First offense, nope. Suspended yes. Get some training, yes.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Nope, unless there are other circumstances like this is 2nd offense or something like that. First offense, nope. Suspended yes. Get some training, yes.

That is the problem.  This was a premeditated assault on a handcuffed child.  There needs to be zero tolerance and a clear message to all other cops that there will be zero tolerance, they need to spend time in jail.   

[Pappy13]

That is the problem.  This was a premeditated assault on a handcuffed child.  There needs to be zero tolerance and a clear message to all other cops that there will be zero tolerance, they need to spend time in jail.   

Ah yes the old argument that you can teach tolerance with zero tolerance. No the way you teach tolerance is by using some tolerance. Teach our cops how to have empathy by having some empathy with them instead of treating them like they are the bad guys...unless of course they are the bad guys which is where you get 1 do-over but if you don't learn anything then get rid of them.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

These two are beyond hope.  As are many cops. This wasn’t a lack of training issue, this was a poor hiring decision.

“Is there any situation in which it is appropriate to to mace a handcuffed child?” If the response isn’t an immediate “absolutely none”. You shouldn’t be allowed to attend police academy or even be allowed to work security at a construction site.  

We need to weed out the bad cops.  And if that means firing 75% or more  of them that is fine.  The remaining  can handle tiny fraction  of the work that actually requires cops.  The rest of the work can be shifted to mental health professionals and social workers.  

[masterfins]

These two are beyond hope.  As are many cops. This wasn’t a lack of training issue, this was a poor hiring decision.

“Is there any situation in which it is appropriate to to mace a handcuffed child?” If the response isn’t an immediate “absolutely none”. You shouldn’t be allowed to attend police academy or even be allowed to work security at a construction site.  

We need to weed out the bad cops.  And if that means firing 75% or more  of them that is fine.  The remaining  can handle tiny fraction  of the work that actually requires cops.  The rest of the work can be shifted to mental health professionals and social workers.  

Once we start ending up with some dead social workers what are we going to do?  Mentally ill people are some of the most dangerous people that cops come across because they are unpredictable, and can be violent towards themselves, other citizens, or the police.

I would agree that there are a lot of unqualified police officers out there, but that's because the pay and job risk do not attract qualified candidates; or they retire as soon as possible because of the risk.  The answer is continuous training, there ought to be mandatory annual training just like there is for many other professions.

[Spider-Dan]

Ah yes the old argument that you can teach tolerance with zero tolerance. No the way you teach tolerance is by using some tolerance.

Since this philosophy clearly did not take root in the cops using pepper spray on a handcuffed child (i.e. displaying less than zero tolerance), I submit that the notion of teaching them tolerance by example has proven ineffective, and they need to be replaced with people capable of displaying tolerance.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Once we start ending up with some dead social workers what are we going to do?  Mentally ill people are some of the most dangerous people that cops come across because they are unpredictable, and can be violent towards themselves, other citizens, or the police.

With the mentality ill (and others) more often than not the police turn a relatively peaceful situation into one that becomes violent. 

I would agree that there are a lot of unqualified police officers out there, but that's because the pay and job risk do not attract qualified candidates; or they retire as soon as possible because of the risk.  The answer is continuous training, there ought to be mandatory annual training just like there is for many other professions.

That is bullshit. 

Police is not one of the top ten most dangerous jobs in the USA but pays better than all of them. 

Problem is that the culture recruits and encourages bullies and egotistical power hungry assholes rather than people with a desire to actually serve their community.   

[CF DolFan]

Problem is that the culture recruits and encourages bullies and egotistical power hungry assholes rather than people with a desire to actually serve their community.   

LMBO ... if it weren't for these alpha male types you'd be speaking German or some other language. Some jobs actually require men to be men and

I'm not defending the officer but I've been in enough new and strange emergency situations that I know it's hard to know what someone will do at that time. that goes for the person themselves. Situations escalate quickly and I don't know if the mind comprehends it as fast. Based on this I think it would be impossible to weed out people who are going to make bad decisions under duress because we have no way of knowing what that duress will be. Each event is different.

[Dave Gray]

Based on this I think it would be impossible to weed out people who are going to make bad decisions under duress because we have no way of knowing what that duress will be.

I would think that choosing people who are caught acting poorly under duress would be a good place to start determining who to remove for acting poorly under duress.

[CF DolFan]

That's after the fact. It seems like many people have this grand idea we can predict that before they are even hired. Without a history that's hard to do.

[Fau Teixeira]

That's after the fact. It seems like many people have this grand idea we can predict that before they are even hired. Without a history that's hard to do.

The problem is that even if there's a history, it's ignored .. oh .. cop X got fired from city Y because he sprayed bear mace into a pediatric ICU .. well he can just go apply to city Z and he'll get a job.

[CF DolFan]

I agree Fau. Same with bad teachers with a history. I don't understand how they slip through undetected in this day and age.

[Dave Gray]

I agree Fau. Same with bad teachers with a history. I don't understand how they slip through undetected in this day and age.

If you made cops carry personal insurance, capitalism would weed this out naturally.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

LMBO ... if it weren't for these alpha male types you'd be speaking German or some other language. Some jobs actually require men to be men and

I'm not defending the officer but I've been in enough new and strange emergency situations that I know it's hard to know what someone will do at that time. that goes for the person themselves. Situations escalate quickly and I don't know if the mind comprehends it as fast. Based on this I think it would be impossible to weed out people who are going to make bad decisions under duress because we have no way of knowing what that duress will be. Each event is different.

Police had zero impact on WWII.  Military does a much better, but not perfect, job at weeding out and punishing bad actors than the police.  If this had been an MP on a military base they would be court marshaled.  The cops that failed to act at Parkland would have been court marshaled for dereliction of duty.  We need to hold the police to the same standards we hold soldiers.