Rumors of an Xavien Howard Holdout

[pondwater]

Disagree, my pizza place changed sauces and I changed pizza places.  My football team changed QB. -  I am still a Patriots fan.

It's not about the player or team. The product is the game of football overall.

Pizza = Game of Football
Pizza brands = Football teams
Pizza ingredients = players and other variables

Some people may change what team they like, but most won't replace watching football with something else due to a certain player. They are still fans of football.

Just like some people may change what pizza joint they buy pizza from. But most people won't just stop eating pizza all together if their old pizza joint got rid of the ingredients they liked.

  

[ArtieChokePhin]

That's why what Derek Jeter did with the Marlins was so disgraceful. Basically, bought the team with a majority of his net worth (as well as the other owners) and immediately started gutting it and selling assets to lower all costs, even knowing that the value of the franchise would go up every year. He made the onfield product suffer greatly so that they could recoup some of their "losses".

It's an absolute monopoly and no owners get any sympathy from me. I only care about contract finances due to the salary cap, otherwise I wouldn't care at all.

It's pretty obvious that with a former Yankee great as the owner and another former Yankee great as the manager, the Marlins will be the Yankees personal farm club.   Best AAA team in MLB.

[Sunstroke]

...the Marlins will be the Yankees personal farm club.   Best AAA team in MLB.  

Well...top-5 anyway.  

[EDGECRUSHER]

It's pretty obvious that with a former Yankee great as the owner and another former Yankee great as the manager, the Marlins will be the Yankees personal farm club.   Best AAA team in MLB.

That Giancarlo trade at the time was disgusting for the game of baseball. Now, looks like the Marlins got the better end of it as Stanton can't stop lifting and hurting himself.

[ArtieChokePhin]

That Giancarlo trade at the time was disgusting for the game of baseball. Now, looks like the Marlins got the better end of it as Stanton can't stop lifting and hurting himself.

Not to mention the fact that he's facing better pitching in the American League.   If I were in charge of the Marlins, I'd take him back in a heartbeat if your boys were willing to pay a sizeable portion of his remaining contract.

[Sunstroke]

Not to mention the fact that he's facing better pitching in the American League.

Can I ask what statistical basis you have for that supposition? Just curious...

[ArtieChokePhin]

Can I ask what statistical basis you have for that supposition? Just curious...

The fact that American League pitchers face nine guys who can hit per game whereas National League pitchers face only eight.  You keep facing nine hitters per game as opposed to eight, your bound to develop better skills. 

[Sunstroke]

The fact that American League pitchers face nine guys who can hit per game whereas National League pitchers face only eight.  You keep facing nine hitters per game as opposed to eight, your bound to develop better skills.

OK, so there is no statistical basis, just your opinion. Not really what I was looking for there.

Counter opinion #1: A lot of the top pitchers like to go to the NL, so they can face a pitcher every game instead of a DH.
Counter opinion #2: A lot of the top pitchers like to go to the NL because they actually enjoy hitting.

Should you come up with any statistical support for your claim...excellent! Let me know and we can continue that debate.

[ArtieChokePhin]

OK, so there is no statistical basis, just your opinion. Not really what I was looking for there.

Counter opinion #1: A lot of the top pitchers like to go to the NL, so they can face a pitcher every game instead of a DH.
Counter opinion #2: A lot of the top pitchers like to go to the NL because they actually enjoy hitting.

Should you come up with any statistical support for your claim...excellent! Let me know and we can continue that debate.

Well of course AL pitchers' numbers are going to look worse.  Because they are facing nine hitters every game, the odds are higher that they give up more hits.   There's a reason why an above average pitcher in the AL will be contending for the Cy Young in the NL.   Not to mention that enjoying something and being good at it are two different things.   I'd say nine times out of ten, the pitcher hitting is an automatic out.

[Sunstroke]

^^^ checking, checking, checking...nope, no stats.  Statistics is your ticket back into that discussion. I do understand your opinion, I just want to determine whether it is supported by the numbers.

[Sunstroke]

...I'd say nine times out of ten, the pitcher hitting is an automatic out.

But...would you actually take a minute to research that estimate before saying it?

[Spider-Dan]

Well of course AL pitchers' numbers are going to look worse.  Because they are facing nine hitters every game, the odds are higher that they give up more hits.

I don't understand this argument.  AL pitchers are better because... their numbers are worse?

Like, if Max Scherzer goes from the NL to the AL, and his numbers get worse, that means that he's... better now?  And likewise, if Shane Bieber goes from the AL to the NL, and his numbers get better, that somehow means he's actually worse?

[Dave Gray]

I don't understand this argument.  AL pitchers are better because... their numbers are worse?

The argument he's making -- not sure whether he's right or not is that AL pitchers have to face 9 out of 9 quality batters.  Whereas NL pitchers only face 8 good players and pad their pitching numbers with 1 bum.

That's logical.

[Spider-Dan]

Right, but that would be an argument that NL pitchers have better numbers.  Maybe that's true, maybe it isn't.

However, even if we stipulate that it IS true, it doesn't make AL pitchers BETTER than NL pitchers.  Having worse numbers doesn't mean you are a superior pitcher.

[Sunstroke]

I don't understand this argument.  AL pitchers are better because... their numbers are worse?

I was hoping that particular question would be answered using the numbers.

Favorite quote in that regard came from the film "For Love of the Game." Kevin Costner's character, pitcher Billy Chapel is talking to his new girlfriend (Jane Aubrey) about the game of baseball...

Jane: Do you lose very much?
Billy: I lose... I've lost 134 times.
Jane: You count them?
Billy: We count everything...