Nina Turner and the anti-Democrat left

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Oh, I completely agree with you about Bush.  I questioned many of the things he did, but I have every faith that his love of veterans is very genuine.  I was referring specifically  to the picture of Trump hugging the flag.  I do stick to my comment of "Probably a large percentage of presidents were just as fake in their various displays" but I didn't mean to make it sound like I was saying that any presidents were 100% fake in everything they took publicity photos about. 

That is the difference between Trump and other politicians.  I never agreed with Regan's trickle down economics, but I tend to believe he genuinely believed it was the best for the country.  Before Trump I generally thought Republican policy decisions were misguided but well-intended.  Trump has exposed that is not true, often they are willfully evil.

[pondwater]

That is the difference between Trump and other politicians.  I never agreed with Regan's trickle down economics, but I tend to believe he genuinely believed it was the best for the country.  Before Trump I generally thought Republican policy decisions were misguided but well-intended.  Trump has exposed that is not true, often they are willfully evil.

The right thinks the same thing about the left. It all depends on what side you sit on. You think your enemy is evil and your enemy thinks the same about you.

[Dave Gray]

I don't really get how the right would consider the left EVIL, per se.

Maybe in some cases.  If you believe the rhetoric that the left loves criminals and hates police, I can see how you might say that is evil.
And if you think abortion is literally murder, then sure -- evil.

But like, we want to save the environment.  What's evil about that?  Even if you think we're misguided, it's not evil.
And we want to have health care for everyone.
And we want people to wear masks to stop viruses from spreading.  Even if you believe these are not effective and have other harms, they certainly aren't evil.


But what the left accuses the right of are more traditional evils -- greed, racism, not loving thy neighbor.

I'm the least religious person you're gonna find, but on paper, if you're going through biblical stuff, aside from dogma (like the worship part), the left seems to be more in line with Christian teachings, like loving the poor and the sick and all that.

[Sunstroke]

I don't really get how the right would consider the left EVIL, per se.

Maybe in some cases.  If you believe the rhetoric that the left loves criminals and hates police, I can see how you might say that is evil.
And if you think abortion is literally murder, then sure -- evil.

But like, we want to save the environment.  What's evil about that?  Even if you think we're misguided, it's not evil.
And we want to have health care for everyone.
And we want people to wear masks to stop viruses from spreading.  Even if you believe these are not effective and have other harms, they certainly aren't evil.


But what the left accuses the right of are more traditional evils -- greed, racism, not loving thy neighbor.

I'm the least religious person you're gonna find, but on paper, if you're going through biblical stuff, aside from dogma (like the worship part), the left seems to be more in line with Christian teachings, like loving the poor and the sick and all that.

Yeah, the "so why are you on the wrong side of the good-vs-evil equation" talk I had with my family didn't go so well...

[Spider-Dan]

But like, we want to save the environment.  What's evil about that?  Even if you think we're misguided, it's not evil.
And we want to have health care for everyone.
And we want people to wear masks to stop viruses from spreading.  Even if you believe these are not effective and have other harms, they certainly aren't evil.

The left supports the fake climate change scam which only exists to take money from strong, patriotic American companies and weaken them.  This money is then funneled to illegal immigrants so they can lay around and have babies while talking on their Obamaphones.  Meanwhile, you will barely be able to afford to put food on your family, because you will be paying $20/gallon for gas.

Similarly, the left wants to remove your freedom by having the government take over the health care system, just like Soviet Russia or Cuba.  This will be used primarily to facilitate mass abortion, but will also be used to kill our honored elders via death panels.

Lastly, the left will settle for nothing less than complete domination of your life.  They will muzzle your freedom of speech with masks, then restrict where you can go and how many you can gather with.  The godless left wants to prevent you from gathering at church and singing loud praises of the King of Kings.

etc.
This isn't even hard.  Turn on Fox News sometime.

[Dave Gray]

Just as a by the way, I don't really believe in evil.  And I don't believe in evil in politics.  I think people are self-serving and looking out for their own.  Sometimes that seems cold -- but I think that most of the individuals on the right and the left think they're working for good.  I do think that some of the most powerful people at the top (of politics and business) are opportunists and are able to block out human suffering for money or power.

I think that the personality traits that make you seek power in the first place are sometimes close to those that might make you a sociopath.  ...not always.

[Spider-Dan]

Just as a by the way, I don't really believe in evil.  And I don't believe in evil in politics.  I think people are self-serving and looking out for their own.

I think the word "evil" is loaded.  But if you are willing to take action you know to be morally wrong explicitly to maintain power, how else should that be described?

And when I'm talking about "taking morally wrong actions," what I'm NOT talking about is casting a legal vote for a flawed candidate.  I'm not on that Nader/Stein BS.  What I'm talking about is stuff like vocally supporting foreign interference in our elections if it helps Republicans win, or invading our Capitol to try to stop Congress from certifying the new president.

[Dave Gray]

If I'm trying to be completely fair, I think that many people think the ends justify the means.  How you get power to achieve what they think is morally right doesn't matter.

[Spider-Dan]

Once you get to "ends justify the means," all bets are off.
It's indistinguishable from "I do whatever I want because what I want is best."

[Dave Gray]

Once you get to "ends justify the means," all bets are off.
It's indistinguishable from "I do whatever I want because what I want is best."

What is is.

[Fau Teixeira]

I'm the least religious person you're gonna find, but on paper, if you're going through biblical stuff, aside from dogma (like the worship part), the left seems to be more in line with Christian teachings, like loving the poor and the sick and all that.

The bible isn't anti-abortion either. Just fyi it says absolutely nothing about abortion. In fact, it specifies that life begins with the first breath. I'm a recovering catholic and I know that.

[Spider-Dan]

Matthew 19:24
"And again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

Doesn't stop the wealth worship, never will.  Christianity started as a religion of the downtrodden, and was usurped by the powerful to reinforce and justify their power.

---

It looks like some of the Bernie-aligned left see the need for a strategy change, though I don't think they've quite got it:

Progressives eye shift in strategy after high-profile losses

Progressives are looking to change up their ground game after losing several high-profile races they expected to win.

Following Nina Turner’s defeat in an Ohio special House election, left-wing Democrats have privately acknowledged that aspects of their strategies have not served them well politically. While some suggest only modest revisions are needed at this point, others are considering more robust changes to their internal operations to avoid future bruises.  [...]

“Nina’s race shows — and perhaps some others — that we’ve got to up our game,” said Joseph Geevarghese, executive director of Our Revolution, the leading group that backed Turner’s bid in the state’s 11th Congressional District. “That means upping our phone game, upping our canvas game, upping our text game.”

I don't think GOTV was the issue with Turner's campaign (although she did do a terrible job, spending only $5k on GOTV out of the millions in her war chest).  Nor do I think she lost on policy.  She lost because, in a primary for the Democratic Party, held in the darkest blue of districts, she was (accurately) portrayed as transparently disloyal to the Democratic Party.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

.  She lost because, in a primary for the Democratic Party, held in the darkest blue of districts, she was (accurately) portrayed as transparently disloyal to the Democratic Party.

I don’t want someone loyal to the party.  Party over principal is what caused the GOP to give Trump free reign.

[ArtieChokePhin]

I don't really get how the right would consider the left EVIL, per se.

Maybe in some cases.  If you believe the rhetoric that the left loves criminals and hates police, I can see how you might say that is evil.
And if you think abortion is literally murder, then sure -- evil.

But like, we want to save the environment.  What's evil about that?  Even if you think we're misguided, it's not evil.
And we want to have health care for everyone.
And we want people to wear masks to stop viruses from spreading.  Even if you believe these are not effective and have other harms, they certainly aren't evil.


But what the left accuses the right of are more traditional evils -- greed, racism, not loving thy neighbor.

I'm the least religious person you're gonna find, but on paper, if you're going through biblical stuff, aside from dogma (like the worship part), the left seems to be more in line with Christian teachings, like loving the poor and the sick and all that.

You want to have health care for everyone and force everyone to pay for it
You want to save the environment and hurt American businesses in the process (Keystone pipeline)
You want to ban guns
You want to control free speech and expression because someone might be offended
You want to base things on people's feelings rather than facts

Shall I continue?

[Dave Gray]

You want to have health care for everyone and force everyone to pay for it

Yes.

You want to save the environment and hurt American businesses in the process (Keystone pipeline)

I don't WANT to hurt American business, but we have to protect the environment and if that comes at the cost of people making less money, then also yes.

You want to ban guns

No.  I'm probably more moderate on guns than you give me credit for.

You want to control free speech and expression because someone might be offended

No, not at all.  I'm a big proponent of free speech, in terms of protection from prosecution, but I also believe in consequences brought on to you by society. 

You want to base things on people's feelings rather than facts

I don't know what this means.

Shall I continue?

Yes.