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Author Topic: Are We f*ckin Doing this Again?  (Read 7224 times)
Spider-Dan
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« Reply #60 on: September 24, 2021, 02:45:21 am »

And I think the play of Herbert speaks for itself. Simms called it, I agreed with it and you can't deal with it.
That's one way to look at it.

Another way to look at it is that you are rewriting history to act like you knew Herbert was going to be great all along.  Which would make this a pretty weird post:

I'm not saying that Herbert is going to be the one to surprise, I don't really think that, I just think he's a better prospect then Tua all things considered. If we had the #1 pick, I'd go with Burrow, but we do not have the #1 pick.

For me, taking Tua at #5 seems to be reaching for a QB just for the sake of taking a QB. Originally I wanted to actually take Herbert with our 2nd pick at #18 which I thought was a good spot to take him, but seeing him rise up the boards now, that's no longer a possibility. So if you like him you're going to have to take him at #5 even though that might be a bit of a reach for him as well. If we are going to take a QB at #5, give me Herbert over Tua, but I'd be happy with passing on a QB at #5 completely as well and maybe get one of the others later.
So if I understand correctly:

- you did not expect Herbert to "be the one to surprise"
- you would have picked Burrow if MIA had the #1 pick
- you thought #18 would be "a good spot" to take Herbert
- you felt picking Herbert at #5 would have been "a bit of a reach"
- you would have been happy passing on QB altogether at #5

But now, 20 months later, you claim you had Herbert and Burrow "ranked even" all along?
Interesting draft strategy for a player you say you had ranked even with the player you would draft at #1.  You didn't think MIA should take Herbert or Tua!
« Last Edit: September 24, 2021, 05:41:22 am by Spider-Dan » Logged

Pappy13
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« Reply #61 on: September 24, 2021, 12:54:59 pm »

- you did not expect Herbert to "be the one to surprise"
Not really sure what I meant by this statement now but don't see how it's really all that relevant. I guess I meant that I didn't think Herbert would come in and shock the NFL, no I did not expect that, but neither did I expect that from Burrow.

- you would have picked Burrow if MIA had the #1 pick
Yes I would have, he was the "safer" pick of the 2 in my opinion, not necessarily because I thought he was a much better QB.

- you thought #18 would be "a good spot" to take Herbert
- you felt picking Herbert at #5 would have been "a bit of a reach"
Originally yes months before the draft. The post you are quoting was from January and I was referring to a time even before that. In January, no I was not convinced that Herbert was a great selection at #5 but nor was I convinced that Burrow was a great selection at #1, but Miami was going to take a QB and Cincy was going to take Burrow that much seemed obvious so if QB it is then the only choice for QB was Herbert, Tua I had ranked lower. By the time of the draft I was of the opinion that there was little difference between Burrow and Herbert and I was fine with taking him, I still did not want to take Tua at #5.

- you would have been happy passing on QB altogether at #5
Absolutely. Especially if we weren't going to take Herbert. I did not want to take Tua at #5.

But now, 20 months later, you claim you had Herbert and Burrow "ranked even" all along?
Interesting draft strategy for a player you say you had ranked even with the player you would draft at #1.  You didn't think MIA should take Herbert or Tua!
Statements taken out of context. That's how I felt about Herbert originally, but it's not how I felt by the time of the draft, by that time I was fine taking Burrow or Herbert at #5 whichever one was available (assumed it would be Herbert), but did not want to draft Tua at #5, would have rather taken another player.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2021, 01:17:06 pm by Pappy13 » Logged

That which does not kill me...gives me XP.
Spider-Dan
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« Reply #62 on: September 24, 2021, 01:10:37 pm »

ok, sure

Don't expect any further credit for predicting Herbert's success when you're on record saying you didn't think he was worth taking at #5.
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Pappy13
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« Reply #63 on: September 24, 2021, 01:20:54 pm »

ok, sure

Don't expect any further credit for predicting Herbert's success when you're on record saying you didn't think he was worth taking at #5.
You're absolutely right that I did not think Herbert would come in and have the year he had last year in the NFL. That much you are absolutely right about however I have never said that, only that I wanted Miami to take Herbert at #5, not Tua. I also did not make any mention of how I felt he compared to Burrow because almost everyone was assuming Burrow would be taken by Cincy. I did want to take Herbert at #5 at the time of the draft and I would have been fine taking Burrow as well if he was available but I assumed that he would be the #1 pick like everyone else. I did NOT want them to take Tua or any other QB at #5 and was disappointed when they took him over Herbert. You don't have to believe me and I don't really care whether you do or don't.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2021, 03:48:37 pm by Pappy13 » Logged

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Spider-Dan
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« Reply #64 on: September 24, 2021, 01:33:37 pm »

No, I get that you didn't like Tua.  That's perfectly clear, and I have no problem with that.

What I have a problem with are your attempts to jump on Herbert's unexpected success as some sort of I told you so.  You didn't like either one of them at #5, but you were more opposed to taking Tua.  And now, in pure hindsight, you're trying to act like you had Herbert and Burrow ranked the same all along!  Give me a break, dude.

Herbert's success has no reflection on your opposition to taking Tua.  Stop trying to claim credit for predicting Herbert's performance.
YOU didn't want to take either one of them.


In fact, your "I'd rather pass on both of them at #5" take means that even if Tua winds up a complete bust, if Herbert becomes an All-Pro then you were still dead wrong anyway.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2021, 01:37:28 pm by Spider-Dan » Logged

Pappy13
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« Reply #65 on: September 24, 2021, 01:40:14 pm »

Stop trying to claim credit for predicting Herbert's performance.
I never have, I merely said that I wanted Miami to take Herbert and not Tua at #5, you have morphed that into me trying to take credit for his performance so that you can argue about it. I've played along now as far as I will play. I'll let my words up to this point speak for themselves.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2021, 01:44:13 pm by Pappy13 » Logged

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Spider-Dan
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« Reply #66 on: September 24, 2021, 05:03:31 pm »

I feel vindicated at this early point for wanting Herbert on the Dolphins. The guy can play. I'm not saying that Tua can't, I'm just saying I don't think people were giving him enough credit.

I did say I'd take Herbert over Tua though. If the Dolphins had the #1 pick, I would have chosen Burrow over Herbert, but I did consider that Herbert might even be better Burrow. Might. I considered Herbert and Burrow the 2 best QB's in the draft and not a lot of difference between them.

I'm warming up to Tua, but I'd still rather have Herbert.

There's no maybe about it. Clearly Tua benefitted immensely from having all those receiving weapons in Alabama and Herbert did not. Now that the roles are reversed, you see the difference.

You keep saying that you don't know what Tua will do next year or the year after and you're absolutely right I don't. But you don't know what Justin Herbert is going to do next year. He might have a year like Dan Marino had after his rookie year where he rewrote the record books. You might see Herbert throw 45 TD's and 5,000 yards next year.

Why'd you have to say that. You just reminded me of the other reason why I wanted Herbert over Tua.  Cry

No Herbert wasn't thought to be next tier by ANYONE except maybe those that wanted Tua so bad they were delusional. I VERY MUCH wanted Herbert OVER Tua. There were others who thought the same way, their voices were just drowned out by all the Tua lovers. Herbert's draft grade was very similar to Tua's. There's no difference.

It's been NON STOP since Herbert took the field.
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Tenshot13
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« Reply #67 on: September 24, 2021, 07:29:22 pm »

 Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
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Pappy13
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« Reply #68 on: September 25, 2021, 09:54:03 am »

Fair enough. I'll stop reminding everyone here that Miami should have taken Herbert. I hadn't considered that it's as painful for you as it is for me.
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pondwater
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« Reply #69 on: September 25, 2021, 12:30:18 pm »

Fair enough. I'll stop reminding everyone here that Miami should have taken Herbert. I hadn't considered that it's as painful for you as it is for me.
Sir, you have officially been caught in the Spider web of circles.
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DenverFinFan
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« Reply #70 on: October 17, 2021, 02:57:14 pm »

No to the sex pest
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EDGECRUSHER
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« Reply #71 on: October 17, 2021, 03:13:55 pm »

No to the sex pest

Watson killed it last year and the Texans won 4 games, so he would not turn this team around. Furthermore, Tua played much better in his 2 games this season than he did last year so he s trending in the right direction. He is not the problem.
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Dolphster
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« Reply #72 on: October 17, 2021, 03:19:24 pm »

Watson killed it last year and the Texans won 4 games, so he would not turn this team around. Furthermore, Tua played much better in his 2 games this season than he did last year so he s trending in the right direction. He is not the problem.

I completely agree.  Tua played a very good game today and the Dolphins still lost to a previously winless team.  I think that makes it pretty clear that the problems on this team run way beyond the QB position.  This team is obviously not just a QB away from being a contender to go deep into the playoffs. 
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DenverFinFan
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« Reply #73 on: October 17, 2021, 03:25:58 pm »

Watson killed it last year and the Texans won 4 games, so he would not turn this team around. Furthermore, Tua played much better in his 2 games this season than he did last year so he s trending in the right direction. He is not the problem.

Agreed
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pondwater
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« Reply #74 on: October 17, 2021, 04:05:55 pm »

I completely agree.  Tua played a very good game today and the Dolphins still lost to a previously winless team.  I think that makes it pretty clear that the problems on this team run way beyond the QB position.  This team is obviously not just a QB away from being a contender to go deep into the playoffs. 
I'm not ready to throw Tua under the bus yet. And yes he had a good game. But remember what defense he was going up against. If and when he can play like that against the better teams, until then the jury is still out on Tua.
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