Ivermectin and Joe Rogan

[Spider-Dan]

I notice that our discussion of COVID so far on this forum has been remarkably light on talk involving feedstores and livestock medicine, which I found surprising given the new hotness in the anti-vax world.  So let's change that!

Joe Rogan, arguably the most popular podcaster in the world, recently announced that he tested positive for COVID.  He said that he treated his illness with azithromycin (an antibiotic), prednisone (a sterioid), and ivermectin along with monoclonal antibodies, a treatment that is just as new and experimental as COVID vaccines, and after 3 days, he feels right as rain!  Another ivermectin success story!

Now, the more skeptical among you may be wondering, "Hey, did multi-millionaire Joe Rogan already receive one of the COVID vaccines he regularly downplays on his podcast, which would make this entire incident nothing more than COVID denialist theater?"  And that's a fair question.  Rogan said back in April that he was scheduled to receive the J&J vaccine until the FDA put a temporary hold on that product following some reports on potential blood clotting issues (the conclusion of that investigation being that the vaccine's "known and potential benefits outweigh its known and potential risks").

Since then, Rogan has been unwilling to clarify his vaccination status (much like several conservative media figures that sow fear, uncertainty, and doubt about COVID vaccines while being unwilling to divulge whether they personally took one of the vaccines they decry).

Do we have anyone on this board that's a regular consumer of ivermectin?  If so, what (if any) side effects has it caused?

[pondwater]

I notice that our discussion of COVID so far on this forum has been remarkably light on talk involving feedstores and livestock medicine, which I found surprising given the new hotness in the anti-vax world.  So let's change that!

Joe Rogan, arguably the most popular podcaster in the world, recently announced that he tested positive for COVID.  He said that he treated his illness with azithromycin (an antibiotic), prednisone (a sterioid), and ivermectin along with monoclonal antibodies, a treatment that is just as new and experimental as COVID vaccines, and after 3 days, he feels right as rain!  Another ivermectin success story!

Now, the more skeptical among you may be wondering, "Hey, did multi-millionaire Joe Rogan already receive one of the COVID vaccines he regularly downplays on his podcast, which would make this entire incident nothing more than COVID denialist theater?"  And that's a fair question.  Rogan said back in April that he was scheduled to receive the J&J vaccine until the FDA put a temporary hold on that product following some reports on potential blood clotting issues (the conclusion of that investigation being that the vaccine's "known and potential benefits outweigh its known and potential risks").

The fact that the liberals and media continue to repeatedly refer to and portray Ivermectin as a livestock medicine is not accurate. Ivermectin is approved for human use, cheap, and safe in the appropriate doses. Whether it's effective against Covid to any extent is not a question that I can answer. There have been court orders for hospitals to administer Ivermectin to patients after the hospital has refused. If a patient and/or their doctor decide that they want to use Ivermectin, I'm not sure why it's a big deal. I will say that taking the veterinary version of the drug isn't something I would recommend, but there is an easy way to rectify that problem.

Since then, Rogan has been unwilling to clarify his vaccination status (much like several conservative media figures that sow fear, uncertainty, and doubt about COVID vaccines while being unwilling to divulge whether they personally took one of the vaccines they decry).

Do we have anyone on this board that's a regular consumer of ivermectin?  If so, what (if any) side effects has it caused?

I don't blame him. I'm unwilling to clarify my vaccination status also, it only makes sense. Regardless of your answer, the crazy people on either side will want to argue and harass you. Therefore, it's none of anyone's business. I wish most people would take this stance, it would make the crazy people find something else to go argue about. I don't mind watching the show, but I'll be damned if I'm going to be a participant in the show.

[Dave Gray]

^ What I disagree with mostly with what you're saying is this:

I feel like it's reasonable to know and decide the risk factors in which to expose my family.  I'm choosing not to put my unvaccinated kids in indoor environments with anti-vaxxers (especially without a mask).  I don't think there's anything weird or extreme about that.

It basically boils down to my home.  We have anti-vaxxers in my family -- we don't have them over.

I don't think there's there's anything wrong with asking others to share that information so that we can make our own decisions and set our boundaries.

[Fau Teixeira]

i treat refusal the answer the question about vaccination status the same way i treat murky water in south florida. Always assume an alligator is in there.

[pondwater]

^ What I disagree with mostly with what you're saying is this:

I feel like it's reasonable to know and decide the risk factors in which to expose my family.  I'm choosing not to put my unvaccinated kids in indoor environments with anti-vaxxers (especially without a mask).  I don't think there's anything weird or extreme about that.

It basically boils down to my home.  We have anti-vaxxers in my family -- we don't have them over.

I don't think there's there's anything wrong with asking others to share that information so that we can make our own decisions and set our boundaries.

I didn't say there was anything wrong with asking. Likewise, there is nothing wrong with someone not answering the question. If someone doesn't answer your question to your satisfaction, you are free to not physically be around them.

BTW, what exactly is an anti-vaxxer?

[Dave Gray]

BTW, what exactly is an anti-vaxxer?

I'm not interested in your pedantic word games.  Come and me in good faith and I'll share ideas.

[pondwater]

i treat refusal the answer the question about vaccination status the same way i treat murky water in south florida. Always assume an alligator is in there.

I'll make the presumption that you know what they say about an assumption?

[pondwater]

I'm not interested in your pedantic word games.  Come and me in good faith and I'll share ideas.

You're the one using the word. Who and what do you consider an anti-vaxxer? They are not word games. Words have definitions and we can't have an intelligent discussion unless we both know exactly what the terms mean. Otherwise, stop using terms and ideas that you can't even define or explain.

[Dave Gray]

Anti - against
Vaxx - vaccine

In this specific context, an anti-vaxxer is someone who is against the COVID vaccine, with the understanding that it's not a special case at the advice of their physician.

In a larger context, not specific to this thread, an anti-vaxxer is someone against vaccines, in general, and most notably relating to their children getting vaccines for preventable and often widely eradicated diseases.

[pondwater]

Anti - against
Vaxx - vaccine

In this specific context, an anti-vaxxer is someone who is against the COVID vaccine, with the understanding that it's not a special case at the advice of their physician.

In a larger context, not specific to this thread, an anti-vaxxer is someone against vaccines, in general, and most notably relating to their children getting vaccines for preventable and often widely eradicated diseases.

That's kind of a broad definition.

Someone who thinks the the government is putting 5G tracking chips in the vaccine (conspiracy nuts)?

Someone who simply doesn't want to take the vaccine?

Someone who simply refuses to discuss their vaccination status?

Someone who hasn't been vaccinated yet for whatever reason, but plans to at some point?

[ArtieChokePhin]

That's kind of a broad definition.

Someone who thinks the the government is putting 5G tracking chips in the vaccine (conspiracy nuts)?

Someone who simply doesn't want to take the vaccine?

Someone who simply refuses to discuss their vaccination status?

Someone who hasn't been vaccinated yet for whatever reason, but plans to at some point?

Funny you bring that up because what the government did in response to the pandemic is how removing your freedom starts

Just stay at home for a bit

*time passes*

Just wear the government muzzle (mask)

*time passes*

Just let us inject you

*time passes*

Just let us track your location

*time passes*

Just turn in your guns

*time passes*

Just get in the boxcar

[Spider-Dan]

The fact that the liberals and media continue to repeatedly refer to and portray Ivermectin as a livestock medicine is not accurate.

No, it's incredibly accurate.  You see, for use on humans, ivermectin requires a prescription... and most doctors that don't want to lose their practice are not going to prescribe a drug to treat a condition that it hasn't been approved for.  (If we thought it was a good idea for patients to decide for themselves whether they should take potentially dangerous medicine, a system of prescription-only drugs wouldn't exist!)

But you know who DOESN'T need a prescription for ivermectin?  A 1200 lb horse.  Which is why we are seeing this:

Animal supply stores report shortage of Ivermectin as people self-medicate for COVID-19
An animal dewormer to treat COVID? Poison control centers see uptick in calls; stores sell out
COVID hysteria over Ivermectin begins to impact animal health

In other words, the reason why "liberals are portraying" ivermectin as livestock medicine is because the people who are self-medicating with ivermectin are using... livestock medicine.

[Dolphster]

So I am completely uneducated about this Ivermectin thing because I really don't care enough to invest any time reading up on it.  But assuming that it is a medicine for livestock which seems to be what most people here are saying. I would find it kind of funny/interesting if the same people (not necessarily here on the board but in general) who don't get the Moderna/Phizer/J&J vaccine because sufficient time was not spent in R&D on those products to give them confidence that it is safe are the same people who are comfortable taking medicine that is for livestock. 

[Spider-Dan]

The COVID vaccines are less than a year old, but ivermectin has been used safely on horses for decades!

[pondwater]

No, it's incredibly accurate.  You see, for use on humans, ivermectin requires a prescription... and most doctors that don't want to lose their practice are not going to prescribe a drug to treat a condition that it hasn't been approved for.  (If we thought it was a good idea for patients to decide for themselves whether they should take potentially dangerous medicine, a system of prescription-only drugs wouldn't exist!)

Doctors have prescribed Ivermectin to their patients in the hospital with Covid. Hospitals have refused and courts have gotten involved. In fact I think that the NY Supreme Court and an Ohio court recently ordered the hospitals to treat patients with Ivermectin. The products meant for animals have different ingredients and have a larger concentration of the active ingredient that could be dangerous to a human. The version that is produced for humans is safe and cheap.

Ivermectin has continually proved to be astonishingly safe for human use. Indeed, it is such a safe drug, with minimal side effects, that it can be administered by non-medical staff and even illiterate individuals in remote rural communities, provided that they have had some very basic, appropriate training.

But you know who DOESN'T need a prescription for ivermectin?  A 1200 lb horse.  Which is why we are seeing this:

Animal supply stores report shortage of Ivermectin as people self-medicate for COVID-19
An animal dewormer to treat COVID? Poison control centers see uptick in calls; stores sell out
COVID hysteria over Ivermectin begins to impact animal health

In other words, the reason why "liberals are portraying" ivermectin as livestock medicine is because the people who are self-medicating with ivermectin are using... livestock medicine.

I wouldn't recommend anyone take livestock medicine. But if you want to complain about and/or stop people from taking livestock Ivermectin, honor their prescription for Ivermectin produced for humans. I think we can look at the war on drugs and conclude that people are going to do what they are going to do, even if it's to their detriment. You can let people drink liquor from the liquor store or you can take that away and let them drink bathtub gin, pick one. You can give people the safe human version of Ivermectin under a doctor supervision or you can let them go take a dangerous livestock version on their own, pick one.