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Dolphster
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« Reply #45 on: September 19, 2021, 05:38:08 pm »

Did the Dolphins' O-Line feel dominant when he was making the Pro Bowl in MIA?
When they had the 17th-ranked rushing offense and were 18th in sacks allowed?

Dude is a cancer.

To be clear:  I'm not saying he's a bad offensive lineman.  I'm saying he's a cancer who will not help the performance of your offensive line.  And I think the kind of OL coaches who buy into the idea that Incognito has the type of personality you need to win football games are the same kind of OL coaches who get fired because they're bad at their jobs.

Dan, Incognito is a douchebag.  I don't think anyone would argue that point.  And guys like him CAN be a cancer in a locker room.  But if he is a cancer in the locker room, how has he remained gainfully employed in the NFL for 16 years?  Incognito is a first class asshole.  A first class asshole is almost ALWAYS a cancer in most professions.  But football is so uniquely different from any other type of profession.  I agree with you that guys like Incognito CAN be a cancer.  But not always.  At least not always in the NFL.  Again, if he is that much of a cancer, he wouldn't still be in the NFL after all these years.  And I really didn't mean to make my initial comments to be solely about Incognito.  That is why I specified "guys like Incognito".  Not necessarily specifically Incognito.  I was really referring to nasty, mean, offensive linemen types who have no objection to thumbing someone in the eye at the bottom of a pile.  A nice guy with a heart of gold won't go very far in the trenches of an NFL game.
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Spider-Dan
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« Reply #46 on: September 19, 2021, 05:55:43 pm »

But if he is a cancer in the locker room, how has he remained gainfully employed in the NFL for 16 years?
OL coaches who buy into the idea that Incognito has the type of personality you need to win football games

Again, I'm not saying he's bad at his job.

Quote
I was really referring to nasty, mean, offensive linemen types who have no objection to thumbing someone in the eye at the bottom of a pile.  A nice guy with a heart of gold won't go very far in the trenches of an NFL game.
I think there are many counterexamples in the HOF.  You don't need to be a dirty player to be successful.
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Dolphster
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« Reply #47 on: September 19, 2021, 06:31:13 pm »

OL coaches who buy into the idea that Incognito has the type of personality you need to win football games

Again, I'm not saying he's bad at his job.
I think there are many counterexamples in the HOF.  You don't need to be a dirty player to be successful.

I think we were both kind of looking at extremes.  So let me take a breath and respond.  You are correct in that you don't NEED to have that kind of personality on the OL/DL.  But if you don't have that kind of personality on the OL/DL, then you damn sure better have a superstars at your skill positions. 

And yes, there are definitely guys in the HOF who weren't nasty.  Hell, the Dolphins have one of them.  Dwight Stephenson was one of the best Centers to ever play the game and he wasn't a mauler.  He was strong but he was much more of a technique guy.  No offense, but you tend to speak (type) in absolutes sometimes.  There are always exceptions to rules.  But I am speaking in general terms on this topic.  OL guys who are aggressive and have a mean streak IN GENERAL tend to be more successful. Notice I'm not saying "dirty".  There is a big difference between aggressive with a mean streak and a "dirty" player.  That was my big rap against Incognito (I could care less if he is an asshole) is that his sometimes dirty play would incur penalties.  Mean and aggressive are not the same thing as dirty.

And being mean and nasty is specific to the OL/DL (and sometimes LB) in my scenario.  I don't want a mean and nasty DB because they are going to be over aggressive and get PI penalties up the ass.  The main thing I'm hoping to convey to you is that mean and nasty are not synonymous with dirty.  And although there are definitely examples of guys like Dwight Stephenson being great, I'm not going to be convinced that in general, aggressive offensive linemen with a mean streak are not more successful than guys who don't have that character. 
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