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Author Topic: Jon Gruden resigns as Raiders coach after leaked emails  (Read 6700 times)
Downunder Dolphan
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« on: October 11, 2021, 10:56:08 pm »

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/jon-gruden-resigning-as-raiders-coach-after-more-leaked-emails-reveal-homophobic-language-per-report/

Only took a few weeks for the Raiders to totally implode after they beat us.


<Edited by Dave: Title correction to fix spelling of name>
« Last Edit: October 12, 2021, 10:27:44 am by Dave Gray » Logged
ArtieChokePhin
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« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2021, 07:57:39 am »

Now this I have an issue with.   They're stringing him up for stuff he did a decade ago, long before he was the Raiders coach.
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Dave Gray
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« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2021, 08:33:02 am »

I believe in redemption.  I believe in making mistakes and then having support to atone for those mistakes.  I don't like the idea of throwing people away who have the ability to change and be better for it.

But...

It can't happen here.  It can't happen here, because Gruden is a leader and in the spotlight.  There is no way he can successfully coach a team and get guys to buy in after this.  ...maybe he can go away, regroup, and return, but as is -- he has openly gay on his roster, it's a league that's 20% black, there are now women officials.  Several former players were crying on ESPN the other day, they were so hurt to find this out.  It would constantly be a black cloud over him for everything.  It'll make it harder in free-agency.

And on top of all of that...

The NFL has had a really shit record on this kind of stuff and are trying to repair their image.

Accountability exists and it matters.  So, I'm for that.  But even more important than that, this is capitalism and if you did things (even long ago) that greatly damage your brand, it doesn't matter about cancel culture or any of that, you gotta go.  It will cost your organization a ton of money and goodwill.  You will lose some current fans, you will lose a lot of potential fans, you will lose free agents, you will lose ad revenue, you will likely lose the spirit of some players already in your locker room.

If this were an isolated incident, I think you survive this, but this points to a larger trend of a problematic man.  And it's a problem in an area where the NFL has a history of being a problem.  There is nobody cancelling Jon Gruden.  There is no other way this can play out.
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EDGECRUSHER
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« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2021, 08:41:39 am »

When will people learn to stop saying terrible shit/committing crimes in an email? Texting too. Just keep your offensive words and or crimes to whispers in public.

Amateurs.
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Dave Gray
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« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2021, 08:55:36 am »

When will people learn to stop saying terrible shit/committing crimes in an email? Texting too. Just keep your offensive words and or crimes to whispers in public.

Amateurs.

There is a lot of truth to this.  Any kind of internal dirt (we all have it.)  ...shit-talking annoying clients, criticizing management, whatever.  In those moments, just don't immortalize it in public emails.  We all get heated and say shit we probably shouldn't.
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Pappy13
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« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2021, 09:45:15 am »

They're stringing him up for stuff he did a decade ago, long before he was the Raiders coach.
Attitudes like this don't change much in my humble opinion. He may have softened a bit over time, but those ideas are still in there somewhere. Just because they don't have more recent e-mails as proof doesn't mean they aren't. Maybe he just got smarter and keeps them to himself but doesn't absolve him of what he said/did.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2021, 09:48:21 am by Pappy13 » Logged

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« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2021, 09:47:18 am »

Attitudes like this don't change much in my humble opinion. He may have softened a bit over time, but those ideas are still in there somewhere. Just because they don't have more recent e-mails as proof doesn't mean they aren't. Maybe he just got smarter and keeps them to himself which I still find offensive.

I believe people can change -- but he's not handled or dealt with this yet.   So, there's no indication that he changed -- why would he?  This kind of thinking has made him one of the most powerful men in the world.  Until he falls and has to answer to his peers and see how he's hurt people, there is no redemption.

One more thing: Yes, 10 years ago is a long time.  But it ain't that long when you're 58.  This was a 48 year old man with plenty of life experience that made those comments on a regular basis.
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Pappy13
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« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2021, 09:50:46 am »

I believe people can change
It's rare especially for attitudes like this. Like you said will probably take a life changing moment...perhaps this will be his, if so maybe it's a good thing.
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ArtieChokePhin
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« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2021, 10:00:04 am »

There is a lot of truth to this.  Any kind of internal dirt (we all have it.)  ...shit-talking annoying clients, criticizing management, whatever.  In those moments, just don't immortalize it in public emails.  We all get heated and say shit we probably shouldn't.

If everyone's personal conversations were leaked nobody would have a job. We're all guilty of saying fucked up things at one point or another.   I've done it quite a few times.

There's no going away, regrouping and coming back from something like this in today's day and age.  Gruden literally just lost his entire coaching and football related career for the rest of his life over an email.

YIKES!!!!
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Sunstroke
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« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2021, 10:01:03 am »


Wonder how many fans up in Jacksonville are searching through old Urban Meyers' emails right about now...

 Lips Sealed

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Dave Gray
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« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2021, 10:02:17 am »

Believe it or not, I think the stuff about him being against female referees is the most telling.  This is a guy who thinks that a particular job is only to be done by men and he shared that idea with other people.  That is some 1950s shit that runs pretty deep.

In a vacuum, you can probably excuse any one thing away, but this is a pattern of behavior and a long-held belief system.
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EDGECRUSHER
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« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2021, 10:03:02 am »

Anyone have a copy of the emails or exactly what he said? I know about the big lips one which is inexcusable but didn't see details of the rest.
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Dave Gray
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« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2021, 10:04:49 am »

^ I haven't heard the specific phrases, but it was the big lips thing, disparaging the openly gay player that got drafted, and comments about women shouldn't be refs when they hired their first woman.

And then comments about the leadership as well, which doesn't play well when it goes public.
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MyGodWearsAHoodie
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« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2021, 10:10:27 am »

If everyone's personal conversations were leaked nobody would have a job. We're all guilty of saying fucked up things at one point or another.   I've done it quite a few times.

There's no going away, regrouping and coming back from something like this in today's day and age.  Gruden literally just lost his entire coaching and football related career for the rest of his life over an email.

YIKES!!!!

Not everyone.  Back in the early 90s, during new hire orientation the HR manager advised us not to put anything in an email you would not want forwarded to the entire company.  I have followed that advice.  I have made comments orally that if recorded could have gotten me in trouble, but my written communication is perfectly clean.  You would be wise to adopt a similar approach.

Keep in mind this wasn't an email between friends on a private email account, these were on a work owned email account.
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MyGodWearsAHoodie
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« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2021, 10:18:16 am »

Attitudes like this don't change much in my humble opinion. He may have softened a bit over time, but those ideas are still in there somewhere. Just because they don't have more recent e-mails as proof doesn't mean they aren't. Maybe he just got smarter and keeps them to himself but doesn't absolve him of what he said/did.

My opinions on homosexuality have certainly changed over time.  Thirty years ago I opposed homosexual marriage and viewed homosexuality as a mental disorder.  I now view homosexuality as an equal but just as valid personal choice.  And there was no profound event, just a slow realization that my earlier opinion was wrong. A person who hold all the same views at 50 as he held at 20 has wasted 30 years.
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